• BoiBy@sh.itjust.works
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    29 days ago

    I use Linux and I prefer GUIs. I’m the kind of person that would rather open a filemanager as superuser and drag and drop system files than type commands and addresses. I hope you hax0rs won’t forget that we mere mortals exist too and you’ll make GUIs for us 🙏🙏🙏

    • TwoBeeSan@lemmy.world
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      29 days ago

      I tried to learn superfile thinking it could make terminal more exciting but nah.

      Gimme that comfy file explorer gui.

      Totally agree.

    • Shanmugha@lemmy.world
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      29 days ago

      I would say “why not, to each their own” if not the thought about what else the filemanager is going to do with root access (like downloading data from web for file preview). But the general sentiment still stands, it is absurd to think that computer must be used only in one way by all people

    • Korhaka@sopuli.xyz
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      29 days ago

      I use both, depends a bit on the task at hand. Generally simple tasks GUI and complex ones CLI. Especially if I want anything automated.

    • utopiah@lemmy.world
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      29 days ago

      FWIW I do use the file browser too when I’m looking for a file with a useful preview, e.g. images.

      When I do have to handle a large amount of files though (e.g. more than a dozen) and so something “to them”, rather than just move them around, then the CLI becomes very powerful.

      It’s not because one uses the CLI that one never used a file browser.

      • BoiBy@sh.itjust.works
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        29 days ago

        I once did rm \* accidentally lol. I now have a program that just moves files to trash aliased as “rm” just in case. I just don’t feel confident moving files in CLI

      • takeheart@lemmy.world
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        29 days ago

        Yeah, when I need to inspect lots of images I just open the folder in gwenview.

        For peeking at a single picture or two through you can hold down control and click/hover on the filename when using Konsole. Love that feature. You can even listen to .wav files this way.

    • Lv_InSaNe_vL@lemmy.world
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      29 days ago

      Tbf, the file explorer is actually one really good argument for GUIs over terminals. Same with editing text. Its either simple enough to use Nano or I need a proper text editor. I don’t mess around with vim or anything like that that.

      Its all tools. Some things are easier in a file manager, some things are easier in a GUI.

      • trashgirlfriend@lemmy.world
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        29 days ago

        I think it depends, if I have a simple file structure and know where stuff is, it’s pretty efficient to do operations in the terminal.

        If I have a billion files to go through a file manager might be easier.

      • BoiBy@sh.itjust.works
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        29 days ago

        Yeah I prefer fancy text editor too. And my biggest heartbreak was learning that I can’t just sudo kate (there’s a way to use Kate to edit with higher privileges but I never remember how, edit: apparently it’s opensuse specific problem).

        Born to Kate, forced to nano

        • Illecors@lemmy.cafe
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          29 days ago

          The problem is running GUI code as root as it’s never been vetted for that. What you want, effectively, is to have EDITOR variable of your session set to kate and open system files using sudoedit. I’m a terminal guy myself, so this exact thing is enough for me. Having said that - I’m sure someone will chime in with a plugin/addon/extension/etc that adds this to the right click context for what I assume is KDE. Or you can try looking for that om your favourite search engine.

  • stembolts@programming.dev
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    29 days ago

    On CLI I figure out the command I need once.

    Put it in a script.

    Cron it if I want it to be daemonized.

    Never think about it ever again.

    Anti-CLI folks just have a bad workflow.

    They see the script as the end, when in reality it’s a foundation. I rarely look at my foundation. I build on it.

    With this workflow I have dozens, hundreds, or thousand of automatic actions that “just work”. Idk, works for me.

    That said, if you prefer to click yourself to RSI to accomplish the same task, who am I to judge. I just watch and nod until I’m asked for a suggestion.

    • pitiable_sandwich540@feddit.org
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      29 days ago

      Yes 100%. I used to search the same problems over and over again until I started doing this. Plus this way you can also version them with git and deploy them to other devices.

    • glitchdx@lemmy.world
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      29 days ago

      i imagine a perfect world in which everything has guis and the guis contain all the information I could want about what it does including the relevant terminal commands. In this way, the gui is also the manual.

  • Natanox@discuss.tchncs.de
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    30 days ago

    Think this is more of a accessibility thing. No one denies the CLI is really efficient to use if you’re a professional, it shouldn’t be the norm that you have to be proficient with it to use your computer to the fullest though. Nor to receive help if you don’t feel comfortable using it.

    It would be nice if everyone could enjoy free and trustworthy computing, including people who either can’t or won’t learn many dozens text commands and paradigms.

  • Keener@lemm.ee
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    30 days ago

    I worked customer support for a WordPress hosting company for a while, and about 70% of all of their troubleshooting was done in terminal. I never used terminal until that job. To this day I do most of my management the same way

  • gamermanh@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    29 days ago

    Lol, meme’s backwards

    CLI evangelists try to shit on GUI constantly, as though it makes them better at computers. It doesn’t, kids

    Can see it in this very thread

      • gamermanh@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        29 days ago

        Nope, I encourage people to learn CLI but to also use GUI if it does what they need it to. The insult was only to people who think they’re superior for using CLI cuz that’s a silly stance

        Just laughing at the meme being backwards from my own personal experience

    • renzev@lemmy.worldOP
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      29 days ago

      Lol no. Many posts in this community recently making fun of gimp. Do you see anyone in the comments going WELL ACTUALLY IF YOU JUST USE IMAGEMAGICK? No. Plenty of things to complain about in the big DE’s like KDE and Gnome. But do you see people saying “just use tty”? Also no. Meanwhile you mention terminal once and you get at least two randos going on about how ThIs Is WhY LiNuX IsNt ReAdY. The meme is not backwards, your perception of reality is.

      • gamermanh@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        29 days ago

        Many posts in this community recently making fun of gimp. Do you see anyone in the comments going WELL ACTUALLY IF YOU JUST USE IMAGEMAGICK? No.

        You really don’t see why people would suggest using other GUI alternatives for image manipulation? image manipulation?

        Plenty of things to complain about in the big DE’s like KDE and Gnome. But do you see people saying “just use tty”? Also no

        “People don’t recommend entirely dropping GUI over one or two GUI issues!” Shocker, wow. They do condescendingly say 'just go into terminal and do x,y,z" though, like I said

        • zarkanian@sh.itjust.works
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          29 days ago

          It isn’t condescending. It’s the easiest and simplest way to do a thing. Additionally, there’s a wide variety in GUI options on Linux, so if I’m helping somebody out, I’m going to give the terminal commands. Not because I’m a terminal elitist or some nonsense, but because I know it will work regardless of whatever their GUI setup is. I might know where to go in KDE, but I don’t know where it would be in GNOME or any other desktop environment I’m unfamiliar with. The terminal command is going to be the same for everybody, though.

  • salacious_coaster@infosec.pub
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    30 days ago

    Are the “Windows evangelists” in the room with us right now? Every Windows admin I know hates Microsoft with a burning rage. Literally the only people I’ve ever seen promote Windows are being paid to do it.

    Counterintuitively, that’s one reason I like dealing with Windows: the community knows what it is and doesn’t pretend otherwise, like some other more “zealous” fan bases.

    • renzev@lemmy.worldOP
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      30 days ago

      Literally the only people I’ve ever seen promote Windows are being paid to do it.

      Yeah, that’s the demographic I had in mind. Lemmy is full of paid shills lol.

  • HalfSalesman@lemm.ee
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    29 days ago

    I use both Windows and Linux. I also mess around with github programs here and there and they almost all require use of a command line to install or manipulate. And because a command line intrinsically is going to inform you way too little or way too much about what you are doing I end up having way more technical issues because I don’t realize I’m missing a dependency or I glazed over an error that popped up in a sea of text during installation.

    Linux’s leaning on CLI is good for extremes: ultra-techy programmers and perfectionists and the exact opposite: people who just want internet and a word processor (who will install like basically nothing anyway so CLI wont bother them and probably keep them from breaking something in a GUI settings page).

    People in the middle who are semi-techy end up annoyed because if they want to do some middle of the road changes to their system they have to use a command line or even code something themselves. Instead of just using a search engine to find the 1 out of a billion different little windows based applications that already exist to do the small yet very specific thing to a “good enough” level. Which just requires a minute or two of internet research, clicking download, waiting a bit, then installing a thing. Some of those tasks you can do while doing something else.

    Or yes, maybe they end up needing to edit an ini file or a registry file (very rarely in the latter case).

    Basically I’m talking about tech users that always use the path of least resistance rather than the most advanced or custom. People who want to do 20% of the work to get 80% of the results.

  • Phoenicianpirate@lemm.ee
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    29 days ago

    I am an elder millennial who never forgot the MS-DOS commands of my childhood. So I would kick that guys arse!

      • Phoenicianpirate@lemm.ee
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        29 days ago

        I never touched that file. Actually wait I did. I put in a quick script to run the Gmouse.exe. Basically to run the mouse driver which you had to do manually every time! But with it there you could automate it and not worry about it.

        Ahh, gmouse…pkunzip (which I called Punk unzip). Fun times.

  • Lovable Sidekick@lemmy.world
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    29 days ago

    Having started out in programming before the GUI era, typing commands just feels good to me. But tbh Linux commands really are ridiculously cryptic - and needlessly so. In the 1980s and 90s there was a great OS called VMS whose commands and options were all English words (I don’t know if it was localized). It was amazingly intuitive. For example, to print 3 copies of a file in landscape orientation the command would be PRINT /COPIES=3 /ORIENTATION=LANDSCAPE. And you could abbreviate anything any way you wanted as long as it was still unambiguous. So PRI /COP=3 /OR=LAND would work, and if you really hated typing you could probably get away with PR /C=3 /O=L. And it wasn’t even case-sensitive, I’m just using uppercase for illustration.

    The point is, there’s no reason to make everybody remember some programmer’s individual decision about how to abbreviate something - “chmod o+rwx” could have been “setmode /other=read,write,execute” or something equally easy for newbies. The original developers of Unix and its descendants just thought the way they thought. Terseness was partly just computer culture of that era. Since computers were small with tight resources, filenames on many systems were limited to 8 characters with 3-char extension. This was still true even for DOS. Variables in older languages were often single characters or a letter + digit. As late as 1991 I remember having to debug an ancient accounting program whose variables were all like A1, A2, B5… with no comments. It was a freaking nightmare.

    Anyway, I’m just saying the crypticness is largely cultural and unnecessary. If there is some kind of CLI “skin” that lets you interact with Linux at the command line using normal words, I’d love to know about it.

    • Possibly linux@lemmy.zip
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      30 days ago

      The commands: ls cp mv…

      Meanwhile you get Windows people who memorize things like Get-AllUsersHereNowExtraLongJohn

        • LainTrain@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          30 days ago

          Versus:

          man $commamd

          PowerShell might be okay script syntax for people with uncorrected sight issues and the elderly who’s heart might not handle bash without set -e but to be useful as a CLI shell prompt that is your primary way of interacting with the computer like it can be on Linux it needs to be so so so much shorter. I’ll be dead by the time I type out half the shit it’d be like 4 key presses total on Linux.

          And that’s before you get to the issues of it being a whole object oriented and typed programming language with .NET whereas shell is nice universal text everywhere that can be piped around however you want.

          There are even those absolute mad lads who unironically use PowerShell on Linux.

          Learning the absolute basics of how to use tmux, vim, sed, awk and grep and pipes and redirects and the basics of handling stdin and stdout genuinely made me feel like all my life I was an NPC in the matrix and now I’m Neo just because passing around bits of text is so powerful when everything works on that basis.

          • TwilightKiddy@programming.dev
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            30 days ago

            Yea, when I switched to Linux, at first I installed PowerShell to get something familiar, but quickly realized that contrary to Windows, terminal on Linux is actually usable on it’s own out of the box.

          • AdamBomb@lemmy.sdf.org
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            29 days ago

            Re: length of commands, PS commands are longer, but they also have tab completion so realistically you never type the whole thing, only enough to be unambiguous and press tab. I’ll grant it’s still longer than the equivalent bash, but not by as much as it appears.

          • exu@feditown.com
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            30 days ago

            PowerShell doesn’t stop on errors either by default. And of course a significant number of tools you need aren’t available in PowerShell, only cover partial functionality or are an exe you need to call so even if it did stop on error, doesn’t work for those tools by default.

            • LainTrain@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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              29 days ago

              It is still a shock to me that some genius aliased curl to Invoke-WebRequest and that curl.exe is what you actually want.

          • calcopiritus@lemmy.world
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            29 days ago

            I’m one of those that use PowerShell on linux.

            You can use tmux, vim, sed, awk or whatever binary you want from PowerShell. Those are binaries, not shell commands.

            You can use pipes, redirects, stdin and stdout in PowerShell too.

            I personally don’t regularly use any object oriented features. But whenever I search how to do something that I don’t know what to do, a clear object-oriented result is much easier to understand than a random string of characters for awk and sed.

            • LainTrain@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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              29 days ago

              Mixing the two philosophies of coreutils and unix bins and whatever is happening in PowerShell seems even more unholy to me than the phrase “object oriented result”, but different strokes.

              I gave up on PowerShell on Windows as a plausible alternative to Bash on Linux the minute I realized there’s no real equivalent tocat, there’s type or if you hate yourself - Get-Content which is aliased as cat but doesn’t really work the same way.

              If I can’t even very basically list a file irregardless of what’s in it, it’s just dead out of the gate.

              On Linux, I once sent myself an MP3 from my server to my laptop with cat song.mp3 | base64 -w0 > /dev/tcp/10.10.10.2/9999 because I cba to send ssh keys.

              I’ll give modern windows a few points - the new terminal emulator application is sweet, and having ssh makes it easy to login to remotely.

              PowerShell is a strange programming language that makes me wish I was just writing C#.

              Bash is a shell language. At its heart it’s a CLI, emphasis on the I, it’s the primary way of interacting with a computer, not a way to write programs. Even awk is arguably better suited.

              That’s why it neither needs to be verbose nor readable for complete beginners, you memorize it the same way you memorize where buttons are on a keyboard or what items you can expect in a right click context menu on Windows.

              Most bash scripts people write are far too complex for it and could stand a rewrite in perl or python or heck, what I think actually works amazing as a “scripting language” - C.

      • Matriks404@lemmy.world
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        29 days ago

        In PowerShell most common cmdlets for basic operations have aliases by default. And funnily enough you can use both Windows (cmd.exe) and Unix shell names for these. (copy vs cp, del vs rm, etc.)

        AFAIK The cmdlets that you use only by Verb-Noun convention are mostly used in scripts, or in some administration tasks.

        I also think that some poeple miss the point of PowerShell, as it’s not supposed to be worked with like with Unix shells, since it’s more object-oriented than string-oriented.

    • SinkingLotus@lemmy.world
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      30 days ago

      I’m the type to spend 10 minutes going through my previous commands, rather than 5 seconds typing it.

    • dgdft@lemmy.world
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      30 days ago

      See also: atuin - a shell history tool that records your shell history to sqlite.

      Seamless sync across shell sessions & machines, E2EE + trivially self-hostable sync server, compatible with all major shells, interactive search, etc.

  • SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world
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    29 days ago

    And the 4 linux users in the world kept jacking themselves off and then whining about how windows is more popular for having a UI