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Please consider donating to PostmarketOS to build up a pure mobile Linux alternative that is completely free of Google’s influence. It’s the best option we have.
I don’t know. Graphene seems like a really good option too.
https://motorolanews.com/motorola-three-new-b2b-solutions-at-mwc-2026/
GrapheneOS is a great OS, and is currently a great options for a daily driver. The only issue with them is that Graphene is still ultimately based on Android, which means they are reliant on Google playing ball with them as least a little, which makes it perhaps not a good long-term solution.
The other issue is that GrapheneOS is completely reliant on manufacturer updates to support a device. Once a manufacturer drops support for a phone, GrapheneOS must also drop support, as they can no longer provide security updates due to the hardware using proprietary blobs for its drivers.
PostmarketOS on the other hand can support a phone for potentially decades since it uses open-source drivers directly from the upstream linux kernel. That has the potential to drastically reduce planned obsolescence in phones.
I say the above as a GrapheneOS user, since PostmarketOS is generally not ready as a daily driver for the average person, hence why I suggest we support it so it can be polished and support for more phones added.
Serious question: what’s to stop Google from just axing AOSP, and what would that mean for GraphenOS? As a company they seem to have become vindictive and I just feel like as soon as it becomes a big enough thorn in their side they will retaliate.
They are basically heading down that path; I believe they started developing in private then they dump all their code twice a year for the public, which has made developing GrapheneOS (etc) way harder to manage.
I can only imagine they want to limit projects like Graphene, but they still want to release source because what made Android big was/is all of the “3rd party” phones like Samsung, etc… but now Google has their own hardware who knows what could happen.
It definitely feels like the end times where we are clinging onto our last freedoms (thanks to privacy friendly roms) before we privacy-seeking folk jump to linux phones (when they become useable/stable).
I think they (GOS) saw the writing on the wall, and this is why they’re now partnering with an OEM (Motorola) so that they are able to continue developing GOS without being kneecapped? I may be wrong, just my understanding
Yeah you are probably right, Google could at any point (for example) lock the bootloaders on Pixels, which would mean no one could install GrapheneOS in the first place.
They are still kneecapped in the sense that they are still developing on top of AOSP, so sadly the bi-yearly code drops will probably still affect them greatly.
No getting around that though and there’s always the possibility Google restrict access to AOSP source code to the point where GOS can no longer access it, in which case the sales of their new phones might allow them to go down the road of full development of their own hard fork of android from the last released version (that might be an impossible ask, I dont know).
Anyways I’m specticilatin’ 'ere
Amazon’s Fire OS is android but they’ve announced a new webOS ripoff, VegaOS, Linux running HTML5/react apps. Normally I’d think this kind of diversity is a good thing, but apparently it’s locked down even tighter and side loading into Vega OS just isn’t a thing at all.
Edit: the point I was trying to make is that some vendors are working to get away from Google’s Android foundations completely. I would think that graphene could go that route if the rug was pulled. But good luck with device support when the device specific source isn’t released.
Really glad I decided to switch to GrapheneOS. My next phone will be a Motorola for sure.
So what do we do when they start making it harder and harder to install graphene?
If the rest-of-the-world can get its head out of its ass, a fork of AOSP with an open governance and a commitment to opensource and open platform, so that every one benefits from it. You wouldn’t need that much from each country to get more resources on that AOSP-bis than Google will ever be able to pour on its homebrew version.
You make a rule that public service can only buy devices using AOSP-bis based systems (or even better: states choose their own AOSP distros) and quickly, Google has no choice but to follow your version, not the other way around.
You make a rule that public service can only buy devices using AOSP-bis based systems (or even better: states choose their own AOSP distros)
don’t give Google the monopoly
better: “You make a rule that public service can only buy devices using libre systems”
If you fork, by definition, they no longer have the monopoly. The fork does not even have to follow Google’s updates.
Getting a motorola cause they explicitly will be supporting GrapheneOS.
But all of that is just a stepping stone. As soon as I deem linux phones to be usable as a daily driver for me, I won’t look back.
Ironic that graphene is developed most for pixel phones
Not really. They develop for Pixel because those devices have the most secure hardware available for developing a modified Android OS.
We still don’t know anything about the phones’ specifications, prices.
I would be so happy if the phone they release with graphene is the Razr, honestly might start work on it myself.
motorola makes great phone. I remember my 1st Android phone, after years on iOS, was the Moto Z Play. That thing can last a week with light usage, or 3 days with medium usage on a single charge. Also remember those moto mods? Motorola had like speaker mod and even a mini projector that you can just snap on the phone.
They made better phones before Google bought them so they could strip all their patents before dumping the remaining husk on Lenovo for 15% of its previous value.
Fine, ill go back to dumb phone era. 3310 here i come old buddy.
Thats great and all, but completely non-actionable.
Tell me instead - what exactly should I do?
Install GrapheneOS on a used Pixel or an upcoming Moto.
Or e/os on its supported devices
Move. Currently get a phone compatible with Lineage/GrapheneOS (second hand pixel, coz fuck Google). Soonish, Linux phone.
The Linux phone is like Iranian nukes… always just right around the corner.
Sad but true, or fusion, or AGI. Still volla is selling even if not really open source, and pressure is building.
i think a solution would either cone through court or law
On top of that, Samsung is ending its SMS and suggesting Google messenger as an alternative. I am not looking to train a chatGPT with my private text messages
Samsung tried its own implementation of RCS, but Google in their monopolistic shittery straight up blocked out any implementations that aren’t literally themselves, open protocol farce
That’s not why 99% of people buy an Android phone. They buy it because it’s the only alternative to iPhones, and they start at significantly cheaper prices than iPhones.
The people that buy Android phones for their “openness” are the extreme minority.
You aren’t wrong. Only minor quibble is that a reason many of us use android is that it’s been more open. Apple treats its customers like shit, and locking their hardware and software down like android is about to move even further toward, is all part of that overall contempt apple shows for customers. I would guess that if apple didn’t lock their ecosystem so tight, Google may not have planned to make this change. They’ve probably been talking for years about how they can do it if apple gets away with it. They finally decided it was going to be worth pissing off a segment of users. Fucking assholes.
The fact that android wasn’t closed like apple’s ecosystem was the exact reason I rejected apple for android.
Yeah, it was cheaper and there’s a much wider selection in different styles of phones running Android than just a one single type for Apple phones.
Like the glass back panel is an absolute non-negotiable for me and that already excludes iPhones.
Other aspect is price, iPhones are usually the most expensive choice and they don’t have any features that justify that price tag in my eyes. So once again when choosing a new phone, iPhone is at the bottom of the list.
Then come all the useless additions, for me. Like an additional 5th camera lens or making it even thinner.
Single camera a decade ago was already good enough for me and phones have always been thin and light enough. No point to upgrade those anymore.Make phones more durable, easily repairable, longer battery life. Previously gaming performance was a good addition, but nowadays most phones are powerful enough for simple games.
Last time i chose Blackview 9000, nearly a 1cm thick and 400+ gram behemoth of a phone. Battery lasting 2 days with full daily usage. Aluminum frame and using hex screws rather than adhesive. While the operating system isn’t that open or good, mandatory ads after some update, the phone itself is solid.
I agree with you but just wanted to give you some up to date info:
- iPhones aren’t the most expensive, folding phones are, though iPhones charge the most per feature/upgrade
- all phones have different gimmicks, iPhones are the best at video, Pixels the best at still shots, while the xiaomi 17 ultra is the best all-around camera (seriously amazing)
- cutting edge phones also have silicon carbon batteries with 7k+mah (Xiaomi 17 Ultra)
- top of the line phones for the past few years can play full steam games natively today using Game Native or Game Hub (thanks to Valve funding Fex), they are far more powerful than ‘simple games’, insanely so
Agree on all repairability things and your general sentiment, I just felt you had some outdated info 😁
Completely fair, i totally forgot that the foldable phone class exists as well beyond the flagship class.
I wouldn’t really classify camera as different gimmicks as those are all just different variations of the same gimmick. Which has been one of the most useless features most modern phones try to catch attention. Phone cameras have been good enough for almost a decade.
No point to upgrade those anymore just to jam another camera in the phone and jack up the price.Though the improved battery life is a rather good point and welcome one. Hopefully that one gets improved more instead of another few mm of the thickness which is completely negated by trying to stuff in few more cameras with a huge bump to fit those cameras in.
Yeah i do agree with the gaming aspect as well, main reason i moved away from specific gaming oriented phones. Most phones are good enough for it nowadays.
Aye fair
I’d agree to disagree about the camera though, while my S7 took great photos at the time, my Pixel 7 takes much much better photos, I wouldn’t want to switch back, the S7 wouldn’t keep up today.
Same with, and especially with video, after taking videos on my sisters iPhone on a recent Canada trip, the difference is unmistakable, almost enough to consider a purchase (although I bought a DJI Pocket 3 instead for videos now)…
I find if you’re looking to capture the moment well, ‘good enough from ten years ago’ doesn’t cut it. If you only need your camera for scanning qr codes then that’s one thing, but if you want great pictures or videos of a holiday or event the camera upgrades really make a difference. Not year on year mind you, but between upgrades its significant.
The jam in another useless camera gimmick was annoying but that fad is mostly over now.
Honestly thicker phones with silicon carbide batteries could have tablet levels of capacity, that would be amazing, they seem to use it for unnecessary thinness at the moment though.
Completely fair. I do lean towards the extreme end of barely taking any pictures. Usually a handful per year, mostly to convey some basic information and my previous Red magic 3 from 2019 was already beyond good enough for it. Some even older Huawei laying in my cupboard was already good enough for my needs.
Though yeah fair, as many people still consider it a useful feature it should be one of many different options, just not the main sales pitch for majority of the phone brands.
I support spreading this message, and fuck Google, but…what’s actually happening is they are making harder to install apps, not removing the ability to do so.
After massive pushback. Their original plan was basically full control. It still is, but they’ll allow you to install something if you ask nicely first.
The other issue is the timing. They can claim this is for security all they want, but it was announced suspiciously close to the courts ruling that Google needed to open up their ecosystem to other app stores. This is a blatant attempt to keep control of the app ecosystem by forcing devs to go through Google regardless of where they intend to release.
I still say fuck them and push back and that total control is there end goal.
However. I agree with what they’re putting in place at this time. It’s a one time 24 hour hold before you can install apks from unknown places.
Unfortunately, a lot of people are pieces of shit, and I know for pretty much a fact that making this move will prevent old people from getting scammed. Especially for more targeted attacks where you can use ai to fake one of their relatives voices. It pumps a brake on scammers getting people to grant access while under a panic.
So if you’re tech savvy, you’ll just have to wait an extra 24 hours before you can start side loading after a phone reset or new phone purchase. Not a big deal if it keeps my pops from having his bank account drained. The guy got in a panic when his Facebook billiards game lost his score data. The guy would have left his phone with someone for a week if they told him they could have gotten it back.
It’s an attempt to functionally black list every android developer that doesn’t want to give Google their personally identifiable information and fuck you for carrying water for this full on fucking fascist move. Your argument is bullshit.
…Do you not know what they’re implementing?
All it is, is a one time 24 hour hold when you want to install a non play store apk. You click “allow apks from unknown sources” and then a day later your phone behaves just as it does right now. The end.
Except google has no business telling me what the fuck I can and can’t do with my own fuckin property. Good for you that you like the taste of boot leather and the feeling of a heel on your neck but it’s none of googles fucking business what I do with my devices in the first place including what I install on them. And the fact you’re deliberately ignoring the clear chilling effect this will have on android open source developers by attempting to force them to register with Google proves you’re engaging in bad faith and a shill. Go throat your boot somewhere they tolerate quislings.
“oh my God. Oh dear. No. Not 24 hours before I can install f-droid. I’m crippled. Wasting away to nothingness. My edgelord life is ruined. I’m never going to leave the basement again. This one day has ruined anything worth living for. Bleeeeaaagh”
I’m glad you like the taste of boot leather, I don’t. Quislings giving away their rights left and right.
This is clearly not designed to keep people secure. If it was, Google would not force you to make your device less secure to install apps of your choice.
The only way it reduces security is by increasing the attack surface. There is no “now anybody can get root on your phone” vulnerability for enabling developer options, and if there were, Google would patch it. I always enable developer options as soon as I get a new device.
Because of this, the audit described in the “Other” link is deprecated.
I always enable developer options as soon as I get a new device.
That’s great for you, but you and I are not the targets that Google is supposedly trying to protect from supposed scams.
Lol at what you call “proof”. Also, no one said you had to leave it enabled. Also, also, dev options is a security risk BECAUSE it allows for side loading. Hahaha
Security should not control us, we should control security. In other words, this is not the right solution.
There’s a middle ground between complete disregard and complete lockdown. If you’ve got a better solution to scammers that isn’t going to drain your battery, invade your privacy, or hog up resources, I’m all ears. Grow up a little and maybe stop being so “me” centric.
Tone it down. Do you still want to be nurtured by the big corporations like them being your mommy? A solution is already out there, it is called secure boot. Google has unnecessarily convoluted the boot chain, and even the OS VM.
Do you think UEFI on a smartphone is a bad idea?
Also, the Android VM is not even necessary, it just makes development cumbersome, cross-platform compatibility worse, and I could go on.
It’s not for me. It’s for the tech illiterate. Secure boot doesn’t stop you from granting remote access apps from running.
Security at the userspace level should be taken care of by the company behind the apps.
They can claim this is for security all they want, but it was announced suspiciously close to the courts ruling that Google needed to open up their ecosystem to other app stores.
The courts ruled that users need to be able to install competing app stores without any warning, which is different from how it works today. Obviously allowing installation without any warning would be a boon to malware authors, so they added a way for third party app developers (including app store app developers) to verify themselves and distribute apps outside the Play Store without a warning on installation. Now Epic can verify with Google and distribute its app on its own website without needing to tell the user how to dismiss a scary warning, and the same is true for Safeway and Proton and other developers that might want to self distribute. On top of that, now GrapheneOS can implement its own verification system using the same OS-level APIs. Maybe app authors can distribute apps themselves for users of GrapheneOS by registering their repo with a verification system that runs an automated security audit on the repo and ensures reproducible builds.
Now that there is a way to distribute apps safely outside the system app store, that probably prompted them to look at what was causing malware problems with the current unverified app installation flow, and they came up with that system. Saying it’s some massive conspiracy won’t force them to change their minds, especially since there aren’t enough users who care to make a dent in their revenue. Proposing a less onerous way to stop malware and bringing that in front of a judge on behalf of the app developers who are harmed will.
Their original plan was basically full control
I’m not happy with the change, but let’s at least get the facts straight, so we can argue our position better. Their original plan included a way to install apps from unknown sources, but it did not describe how that would work.
Of course it did.
For two reasons.
First - if anyone complains they can always say there exists a bypass, no matter how idiotically unworkable and annoying the process might be.
Another aspect is that devs will probably want to test their apps easily and quickly - App stores are notorious for updates taking a few days to be approved. Even for Google, full-on lockdown might seem overkill. They don’t want to bother with speeding up their update approval process so devs can push test builds through the Ecosystem. Giving some route towards sideloading is a much saner solution.
I’m honestly neutral with the change, it makes setting up a new phone a little more annoying, it will just be another step in the process and doesn’t stop me from doing anything. However the small barrier will stop scammers pressuring people into installing things. It doesn’t make it impossible, but will get rid of a lot of the low hanging fruit.
And where you drew the line? These things tend to move in one direction. so giving an inch may as well be giving a mile.
When would a scammer make you download an app? They could just as (more) easily make you visit a website…
It’s wrong to think this will stop scammers or malware.
A change I still wholly reject. Everyone should reject this change. No compromises.
Ok? Its still my phone, my hardware, and now I have to wait 24 hours before I can install wahtever I want on the phone that I goddamn paid for with my own goddamn money.
Also, let’s not pretend as if they not eventually going to go back to their original plan once the initial backlash dies down and people get used to the new norm.
This is supposed to be a simplified message for tech illiterate people. While it may not be fully accurate, the alternative is something that <= 5% of the population will understand.
Additionally, as others have pointed out, this is how the change was originally planned. It was only adjusted due to massive backlash. Apparently the current backlash is not enough for Google to adjust it further.
That’s what they’re doing *so far. * I very strongly doubt this is the last time the deal is altered.
Stop softening the message. They can just turn off any app for any of no reason. This is the same as removing ur ability to do so
But I want to be angry!
This was their solution to the massive backlash after they announced removing it altogether. We’re still worse off, and we already know their intentions. They’ll revisit the attempt later on. You feel for their ratchet effect. Stop applauding
Who’s applauding? I’m not rooting for Google, but if you buy a stock Android device with the idea that Google is looking out for you, you’re an idiot. They have shown time and again that they are evil, but you buy a device and think, “Android is for digital outlaws, like me.” you’re delusional.
I use Android because the phones are dirt cheap. Most of these sort of phones are sold either at cost or at a loss, so it’s hard to complain.
Google is “only” locking you out of using your phone for 24 hours…
For extra security, let’s make it a week. Let’s make it a month. Let’s make it a year.
It’s a holding period so a phone scammer can’t be on the phone with you or over a live chat having you enable and install what they want right away. You’re kind of an idiot if you can’t see that it would work. Cry me a river if you have to wait a day before installing some of your shit.
Of course it wouldn’t work.
Do you think putting a 24 h lock on your grandma’s front door will prevent scammers from coming in?
No. No it won’t. Any good scammer will be organized enough to start the scam and release the lock, then return after the timeout to finosh the job.
Do you think people vulnerable to scams will magically notice the scam in 24 hours?
Also, do you think most scams use sideloaded apps? Amazon gift cards are an easier vector. There’s also premium SMS.
Modern scams have nothing to do with security. They prey on people who fall for them. No security measure, save for a trusted friend telling them it’s a scam will work.
What this is is a thinly-veiled attempt to lock users out of using their own devices and to strenghten a slowly-crumbling ecosystem.
Yes, I know it will help prevent it. I’ve seen it happen in real time. You have time to think if it sounds suspicious after you get off a phone. You have time to decide to call your bank and ask. A lot of times scammers will pretend it’s to help a family member in trouble and they need the money immediately, but now the person has time to call others in the family and discover it was all a lie.
You obviously don’t know how easy it is to pressure people in the moment, and how much harder it is to do after they aren’t under an instant time constraint. Hell, I used to work in sales and I’ve done it. People do illogical things when they’re caught up in the moment. I know 100% this will prevent some people from being scammed.
Well, I was thinking along the lines of, if you fall for a crypto scam, 24 h does nothing about it.
If someone calls as a Nigerian Prince and you want to buy in, a cooldown won’t help either.
If someone impersonates your close family, it just might. But I imagine scammers are smart enough to dissuade the victim from calling the known number with a reasonable excuse. Then the cooldown wouldn’t help in this situation either. Something something scammers being good and all that.
And even if we disregard all that, there’s always the option of having the switch have no cooldown if set during initial device setup. Afterwards - sure. Give a 24 or 48 hour cooldown.
If someone wants it immidiately - they can do a factory reset.
But the problem is - this is not what’s being done. What is being done is the start of a 72 hour cooldown, then 1 week, then 3 months, then no option to switch off at all. This is what I’m against, and what most other Lemmings are.
And to top it off - acting like this to “protect users” is a slippery slope of ignorance in and of itself.
You see, putting users under a glass dome (what all these “security” measures are) takes away their knowledge. With enough hand-holding (“security” or otherwise), they end up dumb, ignorant and incompetent.
“With great power comes great responsibility”. Well, the opposite is also true: “With no power comes no responsibility”.
And such powerless users are the ones who will, ironically, fall for ALL the scams.
The ones who are so “protected” that they have no common sense idea of how and what their phone does.
Once “logic” turns to “magic”, you’re in for a wild ride.
Because, even if they do know (which most won’t), they won’t be able to prevent the scam.
Why?
Because they’re mostly locked out of and don’t have posession of their phone.
They may be the owners, but Google is the one who can do what it wants with the phone. Not the user.
Cry me a river if you have to wait a day before installing some of your shit
wtf
For everyone unaware, enabling developer options already makes your OS less secure, so Google is requiring you to make yourself more vulnerable just to have the right to install any software, not just those allowed by Google. This has been among others confirmed by GrapheneOS themselves:
Thank you, ''preciate the links
Doesn’t the new process require the use of Google Play Services?
And more correctly, harder to install apps the first time but easier than it is now to install apps in the future because that setting will now be copied to new phones instead of having to go through the flow again each time.
Does this remove apps already installled on my device?
So, what’s the current status of GrapheneOS on a Pixel 10 pro? My Pixel 6 pro is no longer supported by GOS in October.
Edit: according to GOS’s site the Pixel 10 pro is fine. Maybe Motorola will release their phone by October.
Just make sure the case / screen protector options are decent, same with spare parts.
My P7P was an unfortunate purchase due to limited options, screen replacements for that device are still $300+ AUD for an original.
The fucked up thing with phones is the locked boot loaders. Locked boot loaders should not exist because this seriously restricts the driver and OS development.
Well they are good for security, but they don’t have to be bad. Pixels are “locked” until you unlock it and install GrapheneOS and then re-lock it to prevent unauthorized access, that’s preferable to both “no lock” and “lock you don’t control” imo.
(This only applies to carrier unlocked pixels you buy elsewhere of course, if you buy it from a telcom company they lock it down, which is bad).
Do Banking apps still work?
Apparently some do, mine does not.
What is keeping me on Android is those app that I need :/ (but shelter with a work mode keep the mess a bit more under control)
You can install google play services on an alternate user profile, then switch into it when you need one of those apps and back to your main when you’re done.
I just use the website.
In my experience, as long as your phone is completely paid for, you can get it unlocked from the carrier as well.
That’s SIM unlocking - totally different from bootloader unlock.
Then I guess I’ve never had my bootloader locked by my carrier because I’ve never had an issue installing Graphene on my devices purchased through T-Mobile as long as the device was completely paid for.
I am so endlessly angry at this, I actually switched banks because my old bank’s app didn’t work on a degoogled phone.
Out of curiosity, what bank? If you don’t mind answering. I’m heavily thinking about Graphine but it didn’t occur to me that it would break compatibility with non-Google apps.
I’ll do you one better: here is an article on banking apps worldwide that work with GrapheneOS. Someone posted it on Piefed a short while back:
https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compatibility-with-grapheneos/
This is the kind of action we need to take. Im proud of you for making the change. Taking the time. Making the effort to say nope fuck you and fuck that.
This deal is getting worse all the time.
what’s the move? get “ahead” of it and get a Fairphone? I am not entirely sure when the Graphene OS Motorola phones come out and who knows the legal implications that will have.
My tech brothers, how easy is it to install graphene on my pixel 7? Will my banking app (Barclays, UK) still work? Tia
Super easy to install. I don’t use any banking app on my phone so can’t comment on that.
I did that for my old pixel 7 so my daughter had something to play on. Works great.
Barclays: This app only runs in the owner profile and secure app spawning may have to be disabled
https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compatibility-with-grapheneos/
The installation is super easy - barelly an inconvinience. However you need to set up everything on your phone manually - no easy transfer from stock Android afaik.
sign up to a 3rd party password manager on your original device so you will have them available there too
I am very happy with Dashlane for two years now. Glad to pay for the service.
super easy - barely an inconvinience
I understood that reference!
And agreed, installation is super simple, just a good quality USB-C data cable (the one that comes with the Pixel works great) and a Chromium-based browser. As for post-installation, yeah it can be a pain but you’d be surprised how much crap from your old phone you don’t actually need. Going GrapheneOS is a good way to go minimalist if you want to.
It should. My banking apps worked fine. None of them work on a rooted phone but worked absolutely fine on Graphene.
I thought you had to root the phone to install graphene?
Nope, just unlock the bootloader through developer settings connect phone to USB, install through official website and lock the bootloader back. Currently only pixel phones are supported
IIRC, no. You unlock the bootloader to install, re-lock, and enjoy your phone.
You have to unlock the bootloader, Grapheneos doesn’t support root on the official builds.
If you have location and mobile data on they’re generally less likely to fuss if you do ever have an issue.
Its so easy with their web installer, takes like 5 minutes. If you go to their website they have a list of bank apps that work. Mine does and no issues. Ive been using Graphene for a couple years and can never go back.
The only thing I’d like to note is, their guide says to use a high quality USB quality. Most times I’ve seen that, it’s been completely irrelevant. With the Graphene installation, the only hard part of the process was finding the USB cable that came with my phone. Once I did, all other obstacles disappeared.
I have always used a regular usb cable, just make sure its in good condition with no shorts in it.
super easy and i never had a app not work instantly including bank stuff
Not sure for that specific app, but I used 4 banking apps without problems. Google wallet does not work so I had to switch to Curve for NFC payments.
I saw Curve being promoted as a replacement. Problem is as they act as a middle man you lose the credit protections normally afforded by your credit card which made me pause again.
