Never liked the look of KDE. It is nothing to do with the tech or features. I think qt is a very solid foundation and my current desktop is built on Qt/QML. KDE just feels Windows-ish somehow. I always liked Gnome. It was simple and felt fresh even though I hate gtk/gobject etc. And I still keep Gnome as a backup.
After a long time going back and forth I think I am all in on Niri now. Regular tilers never worked for me but somehow scrollers do. It is weird how much of a difference it makes for me. It is possible to build a complete desktop now with Quickshell and a bit of a backend for some services which makes the Gnome desktop and Plasma look crazy over engineered and I don’t know why the Cosmic people even bothered. I don’t see how Gnome can keep up as its is such a horrible system to program. DankMaterialShell is reasonably usable for starters but I might even start working on something. It looks like fun.
The windows approach isn’t for everyone but there’s a pretty solid consensus that nobody does it better than KDE. (I mean the Cinnamon people have an opinion but it’s doesn’t matter because reasons)
The reasons projects like this work at all is the pressures are different form the Apple and windows shit. Microsoft and Apple release one UI for their full computers and it has to work for as many people as possible. That sounds great until you realize you are locked in a room with a bunch of boomers wondering why this HOA only has installed 7 speed bumps on this street.
All main desktop environment users triggered in 3…2…1…
But seriously, as a KDE Plasma user, I have to note it’s extremely customizable. It doesn’t have to look or behave like Windows at all, it’s just a default.
An entirely different look? Sure! All sorts of completely customizable shortcuts? Yep! Tiling? If you so wish!
The thing that made Plasma my forever choice is that whatever I want to make it, it delivers. It has settings for everything.
Here are just two examples of the non-standard KDE looks by the way:
Is the left panel in the first screenshot just a bunch of System Monitor widgets stuck together? Or is it a different widget that displays all this information in this way?
Moved from KDE to hyperland, while keeping some of the ecosystem, like KDE PIM, Dolphins, Okular and the other standard apps.
Best decision for my daily work I made in a long time
On my crappy N100 netbook (8 GB RAM), I use Plasma by default, but shut it down and use either raw TTY or Sway, for heavier tasks. Sometimes you need every percent CPU, but sometimes you just want to boot and have your network working by default.
Unused ram is wasted ram. Change my mind
“i paid for the whole RAM imma use the whole RAM”
–me in 2010 using console commands to turn off all the particle effects in Portal so that I could boost my fps to ~20 w/ minimum settings (the laptop did not have a graphics card lmao)
Basically a zoetrope at that point.
Reminds me when I first started pc gaming. I even doubled my RAM to 512mb! I found a mod that basically turned everything into basic polygons where the walls were just red planes, characters looked like minecraft, the guns looked like they were done by a brutalist architect after being verbally described to them. Ran a mean 45 fps, but you had to use something like CCleaner to clear the ram in between rounds.
Omg! CCleaner nostalgia!
I also had some sort Windows background process suppression software that would squeeze 2–3 more fps out for me. At the cost of occasionally bluescreening me lol
Kids these days don’t know how easy they’ve got it with native Linux game support and Steam Proton!
This applies when RAM is used as temporary cache or something that can be instantly freed the moment it is needed otherwise. This doesn’t really work for justifying higher RAM use by KDE, unless you would never need that RAM for anything else anyway.
I use KDE because it is good, though.
Also, higher ram usage by programs makes it less likely that their actively used RAM (ie what it is actually currently using) fits in your CPUs caches, making them run slower.
Also I don’t think KDE even uses more RAM than other DEs that are designed to be lightweight. Last time I compared, it used the same or less memory as LXDE.
Yep. KDE is feature-rich, but it’s also highly optimized these days, and the RAM usage is actually competitive with the best of them.
You can get RAM usage lower on a very stripped down, barebones system, but if you want a full ‘normal computer’ desktop experience that has all the things you’d expect a computer to have, you’d be hard-pressed to find one that uses significantly less RAM than KDE. (Yes, there are some that get lower … but not a lot lower. And unless you’re running on some extremely limited hardware, are those extra 20MB of RAM really going to make a difference in your everyday life?)
Also I don’t think KDE even uses more RAM than other DEs that are designed to be lightweight. Last time I compared, it used the same or less memory as LXDE.
Firefox without any website loaded uses more RAM than a full Plasma session.
And KDE can be even more efficient if you go into the settings and tweak things a bit, turning off some unnecessary features that are on by default.
Which features? Asking because I switched recently to Linux.
Which features are unnecessary?
Well, depends how you’re using it. In my case, for example, I don’t have a printer, so I could turn off the entire print manager system/service and save a bit of unnecessary RAM. And if you’re trying to be economical about RAM usage, things like fancy window decorations, window animations, and other purely aesthetic stuff like that can of course go. But, really, what features are necessary versus unnecessary will depend on you and what you’re using your computer for.
Or did you just mean what features does KDE have?
In that case, the answer is basically, all the features. Like, KDE is the quintessential ‘everything and the kitchen sink’ desktop. You name it, they have it … or it can quickly and easily be added. Any feature you can think of from any other OS or desktop, chances are KDE already has it or at least can do it with just a little tweaking.
For an example, I think my favorite feature would be the ability to set custom window rules for each application or even each sub-window within an application. Setting rules that dictate the size and placement of that app’s windows, their transparency, which virtual desktop they open in, whether they show up in the taskbar or not, whether other windows can cover them up or not, etc. I use those rules extensively in my workflow to make sure each app always goes exactly where I want it on my multiple monitors, stays there, and behaves just how I want it to. (For example, I want my system monitor to be 80% translucent in a certain corner of the screen. I want my timer app to always stay on top, and in a particular location on a particular screen, I want my time tracking spreadsheet open on all desktops, but always in the background and not cluttering up the taskbar. I want the terminal to always open maximized on my left monitor, and for it to be 100% visible when active, but 80% translucent when not active. With window rules, I can make all of that happen.)
And if you’re trying to be economical about RAM usage, things like fancy window decorations, window animations, and other purely aesthetic stuff like that can of course go.
That’s negligible at best and imaginary at worst. Themes that aren’t used, aren’t loaded into RAM.
Which features are unnecessary I meant. 😁
The difference being that in the one of those cases you still need to open a browser instance before you are able to browse the web.
It’s just really oversimplifying memory usage. OS designers had that same thought decades ago already, so they introduced disk caching. If data gets loaded from disk, then it won’t be erased from memory as soon as it isn’t needed anymore. It’s only erased, if something else requests memory and this happens to be the piece of “free” memory that the kernel thinks is the most expendable.
For example, this is what the situation on my system looks like:
free -h total used free shared buff/cache available Mem: 25Gi 9,8Gi 6,0Gi 586Mi 9,3Gi 15GiOut of my 32 GiB physical RAM, 25 GiB happens to be usable by my applications, of which:
- 9.8 GiB is actually reserved (
used), - 9.2 GiB is currently in use for disk caching and buffers (
buff/cache), and - only 6.1 GiB is actually unused (
free).
If you run
cat /proc/meminfo, you can get an even more fine-grained listing.I’m sure, I could get the number for actually unused memory even lower, if I had started more applications since booting my laptop. Or as the Wikipedia article I linked above puts it:
Usually, all physical memory not directly allocated to applications is used by the operating system for the page[/disk] cache.
So, if you launch a memory-heavy application, it will generally cause memory used for disk caching to be cleared, which will slow the rest of your system down somewhat.
Having said all that, I am on KDE myself. I do not believe, it’s worth optimizing for the speed of the system, if you’re sacrificing features that would speed up your usage of it. Hell, it ultimately comes down to how happy you are with your computer, so if it makes you happy, then even gaudy eye-candy can be the right investment.
I just do not like these “unused RAM is wasted RAM” calls, because it is absolutely possible to implement few features while using lots of memory, and that does slow your system down unnecessarily.- 9.8 GiB is actually reserved (
deleted by creator
I read this same principle in an arch or gentoo forum/manual. I can’t even think of an argument against it tho? Unused anything is wasted by definition isn’t it? I know I’m missing something obvious somehow
The problem with the simplified phrase is that your computer is expected to run more than one program at a time.
If you are only running one program, it should certainly use all the RAM of your system.
However, your desktop, laptop, phone, tablet, game console, etc. all run hundreds or thousands of programs at the same time. Each individual application should optimize RAM usage so the whole system can work together.
Another commenter in the chain talks about disk caching, which is what the phrase “unused ram is wasted ram” came from
It’s been coopted by application programmers who don’t want to optimize their software
Well, e. g. unused weapon is not really waste, is it?
what? yes, an unused weapon is still a wasted weapon. I know I’m missing something tho
Maybe it is a wasted weapon, but is it really a waste? Can weapon be considered wasted?
Can we try a different example or a declarative statement that negates my implied claim that in any case where a thing is unused, it must be categorized as waste by definition? The previous questions seem obviously clarifying of nothing. I know they’re probably clarifying once your point is known, but because the point remains unknown to me, I can only perceive them as empty Socratic dialogue? I know it’s not, I’m just trying to express more definitively how confused I’m getting lol
Plasmashell crashes often enough any feelings of superiority are due to poor meat space memory.
RAM was the last thing on my mind when I switched to a tiling WM.
With actual hardware, yes. But I use tiling WMs since where 2–4GB Ram was all my thinkpad has.
yeah, kde is da best… i tried to use some of the others but kde just works so much better
I was actually just considering trying out a different DE like Cosmic or a compositor like Hyprland, but idk if it’s just a “grass is greener” thing or not. KDE’s got a lot going on for it and switching between QT and GTK is a pain, and I’ve never used a compositor so idk what to expect.
I switched my work PC to Pop a couple months ago and seriously gave Cosmic a try.
I had issues with it remembering screen positions and monitor settings would get reset to default on every boot. I installed KDE last week and it was like changing to a comfortable pair of shoes. Everything magically started working exactly how it should.
Cosmic is still beta but I’m excited for it none-the-less as I use Gnome with all the cosmic extensions today. I just find that KDE feels dated and limited and Cosmics ease of customizability is very appealing
I guess that’s the only reason I’m considering trying something else, KDE is great because it’s got so many options, but also it’s got too many options you gotta mess with to get it looking just ok.
Cosmic left beta months ago.
Is Epoch1 considered post beta? None-the-less, it’s an early release of a pretty aspirational DE. Give it a year or two and check back for something stable
Yes, it is https://www.howtogeek.com/cosmic-desktop-for-linux-exits-beta-with-pop-os-24-04/
I agree with you it’s early, and not mature. Got a lot of growing to do. I recently tried it out and I think it is pretty nice for an early version but I really need a lot more customization to consider switching to it.
Try Niri with danklinux.com It’s super easy to install and lots of fun to use.
Thanks! I’ll check it out!
Any reason to choose Niri over Hyprland?
Niri implements a scrolling windowmanager like PaperWM instead of tiling like Hyprland. Tiling resizes your windows constantly, while scrolling only resizes when you want it to. If you keep opening windows, Niri opens them to the right of the last one on an infinitely wide workspace. Workspaces are organized vertically downwards. There’s no fixed number of workspaces, they grow on demand. There’s also a zoomed out overview showing you all workspaces and windows. Niri and Hyprland have some similarities though otherwise like lots of keyboard commands to move, resize, arrange windows.
Niri is friendlier overall I would say. It’s worth trying both since they are distinct.
KDE is cool, but i was a heavy shortcut user even on Windows. Me discoovering Hyprland is akin to a drug-addict trying out heroine, because i can’t go back now.
What shortcuts does Windows have that KDE doesn’t?
KDE has lots of shortcuts, and they can he customized endlessly
It’s one of the main things I like about it
Sure
tiling goes brrrr tho
also, special workspaces. Love me some special workspaces
Aaand pyprland zoom is also pretty handy for a sight-impaired guy like me
KDE can be considered heavy only if your idea of a desktop use is to launch it and stop right there.
But normally after that you launch apps and that’s where the magic happens: it is so integrated, apps barely add any more RAM usage on top.
So instead of comparing DE x and y, compare what a desktop actively used looks like: browser? office suite? file manager? drawing app?
Only then will you be able to compare you RAM usage from one DE to another. Everything else is comparing cars fuel economy when they’re all idle.
Yeah I dont get the obsession with optimization
Seriously, you can always just buy more RAM…
^(oh. oh dear me.)
Tbh most optimizations save so little ram thats its impossible to notice, if you have 16gb or hell even 8gb of ram its hard to notice the minuscule amounts saved with a WM especially a Wayland WM such as Sway/Niri and especially Hyperland.
KDE is neat and does what I want a DE to do
I’ve settled for lxqt + niri because I was too lazy to rice my desktop and lxqt looked good enough, I don’t know what features I’m missing but until I need them I’m doing good.
KDE is premier for a modern system, but I have a handful of low-power devices where XFCE or LXQt are a lot more useful despite disliking their interfaces.
XFCE is great for mid-range old devices, and LXQt is great for dogshit old devices.
XFCE is great for mid-range old devices, and LXQt is great for dogshit old devices.
What’s this device in your scale from old doghit to old mid-range?
Runs a full Plasma session just fine. The problem isn’t the desktop, it’s the web browsers, especially Firefox. Falkon runs OK.
If you don’t use Gnome or KDE or one of the other big DEs, do you basically have no (user facing GUI) programs installed by default? If so, don’t you end up installing a bunch of programs from one of those anyway?
Keyboard shortcuts. And also, launchers.
They open as tiles not windows, look up hyprland
It basically favors keyboard only use over mouse
I think most window managers typically come with just a fee GUI apps preinstalled, but most users install more.
Most window managers come with no GUI apps. They don’t even have a launcher (start menu), status bar, notification area, wifi menu, task bar, dock, etc.
For most window managers you pick and choose a shell, launcher, etc, to combine it with. Then you configure all those separate tools and the window manager to your liking
There are preconfigured packages, distros, and scripts that make sensible choices for this already. Even they usually don’t bring a lot of applications with them.
Omarchy brings a lot of applications in their default install. Check out this uninstall script to get an idea. KDEnlive is a KDE application, gnome-calculator, nautilus, gnome-diskutil, gnome-keyring are GNOME. Chromium is GTK too, I actually don’t know if LibreOffice is. So not many I would dare say. Others ship less.
Dank Linux, a full features shell for Niri, Wayland, mangowc describes it pretty well.
Batteries Included
The age of assembling your desktop from dozens of separate tools and spending hours trying to make it feel cohesive is over. While traditional Wayland setups require you to hunt down, configure, and maintain a sprawling collection of utilities, Dank Linux delivers everything in one cohesive package with minimal dependencies.
The Traditional Way: Package Hunting Simulator
A typical Hyprland, niri, Sway, MangoWC, dwl, labwc, Miracle WM, or generic Wayland setup forces you to learn about and configure a dozen or more separate tools, such as:
- Status Bar: waybar, eww, or custom scripts
- Notifications: mako, swaync, or dunst
- App Launcher: rofi, wofi, fuzzel, or tofi
- Screen Locking: swaylock, hyprlock, or gtklock
- Idle Management: swayidle, hypridle
- System Tools: htop, btop, nm-applet, blueman, pavucontrol
- Audio Control: pavucontrol, pamixer scripts
- Brightness Control: brightnessctl with custom bindings
- Clipboard Manager: clipman, cliphist, or wl-clipboard scripts
- Wallpaper Management: swaybg, swww, hyprpaper, or wpaperd
- Theming: manually configuring gtk, qt, various apps, bars, compositor gaps and colors
- Power Management: custom scripts or additional daemons
- Greeter: gdm, sddm, lightdm, greetd
Each tool has its own configuration format, its own quirks, and its own dependencies. You’ll spend hours writing glue scripts, debugging integration issues, and discovering missing functionality at the worst possible moments.
That was my experience when I briefly tried a TWM, the parts bin approach is very cool but I need my computer to work NOW, I can’t take two weeks to play with it. A package sounds good…
Omarchy is the most complete package for Hyprland, I have seen so far. Installs in under 10 minutes and comes with everything you need installed, nicely configured, and good documentation.
Interesting, every wm I’ve tried had a status bar, launcher and a web browser preinstalled, but I haven’t tried many and I forget what distro
Distros might package some stuff for you, yes.
Thats cool and all but hyprland and dank material shell are just too good for me to switch off of.
It’s all about the workflow efficiency for me, not RAM. And the tilers for KDE and Gnome have always been unreliable in my experience.
Did you try on KDE since Plasma 6 came out? It introduced a native, manual tiling mechanism, which just needs to be configured by a KWinscript to make it automatic, so it still feels native when you resize the tiles. I’m pretty happy with Krohnkite these days either way…
