- cross-posted to:
- linux@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- linux@lemmy.ml
Stumbled across this quick post recently and thought it was a really good tale and worth sharing.
A couple of weeks ago, I saw a tweet asking: “If Linux is so good, why aren’t more people using it?” And it’s a fair question! It intuitively rings true until you give it a moment’s consideration. Linux is even free, so what’s stopping mass adoption, if it’s actually better? My response:
- If exercising is so healthy, why don’t more people do it?
- If reading is so educational, why don’t more people do it?
- If junk food is so bad for you, why do so many people eat it?
The world is full of free invitations to self-improvement that are ignored by most people most of the time. Putting it crudely, it’s easier to be fat and ignorant in a world of cheap, empty calories than it is to be fit and informed. It’s hard to resist the temptation of minimal effort.
And Linux isn’t minimal effort. It’s an operating system that demands more of you than does the commercial offerings from Microsoft and Apple. Thus, it serves as a dojo for understanding computers better. With a sensei who keeps demanding you figure problems out on your own in order to learn and level up.
Now I totally understand why most computer users aren’t interested in an intellectual workout when all they want to do is browse the web or use an app. They’re not looking to become a black belt in computing fundamentals.
But programmers are different. Or ought to be different. They’re like firefighters. Fitness isn’t the purpose of firefighting, but a prerequisite. You’re a better firefighter when you have the stamina and strength to carry people out of a burning building on your shoulders than if you do not. So most firefighters work to be fit in order to serve that mission.
That’s why I’d love to see more developers take another look at Linux. Such that they may develop better proficiency in the basic katas of the internet. Such that they aren’t scared to connect a computer to the internet without the cover of a cloud.
Besides, if you’re able to figure out how to setup a modern build pipeline for JavaScript or even correctly configure IAM for AWS, you already have all the stamina you need for the Linux journey. Think about giving it another try. Not because it is easy, but because it is worth it.
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Fuck DHH
deleted by creator
Shit like this https://world.hey.com/dhh/are-we-past-peak-woke-c313b7d1
Development led me directly to installing Linux because Windows is bad for dev…
I fell into the warm embrace of KDE and GNOME environments in 2022 and have never looked back.
See…
The RTFM condescending, contemptuous attitude doesn’t help.
A lot of us are not teens, or 20 somethings, and have other responsibilities and duties.
We just want the shit to “Just Work.” We don’t want to research why the last version upgrade broke the graphics driver, or why our printer doesn’t work anymore, or any of that stuff.
Granted, the distros that try to fix this have advanced light years over the last actual 20 years, but it’s still not good enough.
And yes, I have my “Compiled From Scratch Arch” membership card. Never again.
Have you tried driving without learning ?
Have you tried not trying to funny? Because you are not.
Path of least resistance is at the electronics store and general support from marketed software. So lack of Linux hardware in stores and lack of well marketed software
20 years ago Apple at least had store presence and had their own software as major draws, Final Cut Pro, GarageBand people loved, and really as a brand MacBook’s are/were fashionable
Linux is widespread in software development and data science. It’s mainstream draw is still developing. Could be games. It could maybe someday be seen as the choice for content creators if the selection of media creation/editing continues to improve and have their Blender/Krita rise. Talking like Kdenlive, Ardour, GIMP, etc
Well yes but also no. There are quite a few distros that are “minimal effort”, they just work for the average person without any more knowledge you’d need on Windows or Mac. The last part that’s still not so “minimal effort” is gaming, most things just work out of the box, some things don’t. Btw Android is Linux.
So I don’t think that the problem is that Linux needs a little more knowledge or effort, because it mostly doesn’t, but the fact that most people who would switch see a billion different distros and don’t know what to do. Having so much choice here actually hinders people from coming to Linux. Doesn’t mean it would be better with less choices, it’s just one of several reasons why we don’t see mass adoption.
Another reason is the outdated thinking that Linux is complicated to use (and this blog fuels just that).
I often see people saying Linux is difficult to install and use, and when people ask for more details it turns out they’re describing an experience from 15-20 years ago, and they haven’t tried using it since. There are several very easy distros around now.
Yep. Linux is as easy or often easier to install than Windows. The main difference is people rarely install Windows, it’s just there, by default.
The Big issue, I think, is the tyranny of the default.
The rest of the usability issues will get fixed with greater adoption rates if they come.
But yeah, once you get over the hurdle of going against the default, the deluge of choice is overwhelming, much like why Mastodon and Lemmy didn’t see huge usage spikes when Twitter and Reddit went to shit, but Bluesky did.
Worst take ever. Outside of Desktop, Windows gets dominated by Linux. Even on Azure, Linux is the number one OS over MS’s Windows Server. Windows is free on IoT and still Linux dominates. So what makes Desktop different? 30 years of Microsoft’s vendor lock-in strategy. All the OEMs have to invest into Windows because they have to take the volume licensing deal from Microsoft or be priced out. This ensures Windows engineering efforts for drivers, software, and testing. Because the machines were Windows, 3rd party hardware and software had to invest into Windows as well. When there is no vendor lock-in, Linux receives the money for engineering efforts and dominates Windows. Nobody complains about having Linux on their Smart TV. Right, because the money for engineering efforts are not forced to be put toward Windows. How many people are switching their Steam Deck to Windows 80%? 50%? 10%? 1%,? more like ~0.1% switch. The money is there to make a great experience and so there is almost no reason to switch. It’s only the tech nerds that are installing OSes. Average people don’t even know what Windows or Linux is. When Microsoft loses it’s lock-in strategy, Linux will take over. Nobody is choosing Windows for Desktop. It’s just what comes on the machine at the store.
I worry that for 3rd parties to put forth any effort, there needs to be incentives… which would be in the form of demand… which isn’t there yet because they don’t put any effort into it.
MS is playing a dangerous game (for them). If they turn the screws on users hard enough then Linux might gain enough market share for there to be real demand. I’m trying to get people to switch but the lack of third party support makes it a minefield sometimes.
for 3rd parties to put forth any effort, there needs to be incentives… which would be in the form of demand
I mean this is it. That’s why Microsoft’s vendor lock-in strategy has kept Windows dominant on Desktop. It guarantees money will be spent on Windows first and foremost for all these OEMs. Which guarantees 3rd party support.
If they turn the screws on users hard enough then Linux might gain enough market share for there to be real demand
Regular users wont switch to Linux until the machine comes preinstalled with Linux. Microsoft can screw over their customers and the average user will just have to take it. The average users just doesn’t know any better. Ultimately, average users need to see a machine they want to buy in a brick and mortar store. As long as Microsoft’s vendor lock-in strategy is in affect, the average user will never see a Linux machine, from your typical OEM, even to unknowingly consider. But, if Valve releases a Steam Console, they could put that machine in a brick and mortar store. Lots of regular average users would buy it for the gaming, not realizing it’s Linux. Eventually they would learn they could use the desktop mode in a pinch (same as what happened with the Steam Deck). When they realize the desktop mode works just as well as their PC, likely, they will stop buying a PC altogether. It will be like when PlayStation sold their PS2. Lots of people just bought a PS2 because it came with a DVD player. DVD player sales declined rapidly. If something similar happens with a Steam Console, Linux would have a market share 3rd party developers could not ignore. I don’t know if that would break Microsoft’s vendor lock-in strategy, but I think 10M - 20M Steam Consoles sold every year would definitely get the attention of 3rd party hardware vendors and software vendors for at least the gaming market. And all that would be supported on desktop Linux too; making it even easier for the tech nerds to switch. Then you are just waiting on the network affect to take off.
We will have to see, what unfolds in the next couple years.
Regular users wont switch to Linux until the machine comes preinstalled with Linux.
I think there is a share of enthusiasts who will be willing to give Linux a shot as Microsoft continues to turn the screws. I know someone with a steam deck that has been impressed with it and even uses discord on it from the desktop mode. Maybe not many regular users but a subset of more technical users who haven’t yet been driven to try. Add in those of us willing to suggest Linux to friends and family and then support them as “regular” users when they try to adopt it. There are also a number of smaller companies who are selling and supporting devices with Linux installed from the factory. There is a chance to start to tip the scales, maybe.
The incentive for consumer Linux is controlling the app store.
Google leverages its control of the app store to make money on Android. Valve has invested in Linux in order to have an alternate OS in case Windows becomes hostile.
I’ve been wanting to switch to Linux for years, but it was always too intimidating for me since I’m not a computer programmer. In the end, it took a roommate who was tech savvy to help install it and answer a few questions. Took about 10 minutes of his time but I still felt like a burden
Sysadmin here. I use Linux a lot on the job and in my homelab, but it’s true, I don’t wasn’t firefighting exercises off the clock. I just want to use my computer. Also, my systems are used by the whole family, and they sure as hell don’t want to learn Linux and become IT zealots.
Why don’t people use Linux? Fair question. It’s because people who don’t use Linux are stupid and lazy.
Wow, galaxy brain stuff.
It’s really the egos and superiority complexes of the Linux elitists that are preventing mass adoption.
And a distro that actually lets you use a UI for everything.
Nah. Most people who use computers would never interact with those folks.
It’s not installed by default and when things go wrong you need to fix it yourself.
People just want to use computers to do STUFF. They don’t want to think about the computers themselves.
Because windows and Mac just works, without touching terminal for a single second! There is your .
That’s such a weird take, I’m not sure it’s not an attempt at rage baiting.
I’ve used Linux Mint for about ten years. I’ve used terminal once - only because that specific laptop had some trackpad or WiFi (can’t remember which) issue. I just typed in a few lines and that was it.
Let them eat ads
Man, I wish the Windows-only shop I support as a sysadmin “just worked.” I spend the majority of my time troubleshooting random Windows issues.
Driver issues, firmware issues, Teams breaking, Outlook breaking, SharePoint and OneDrive sync issues, Edge freezing/crashing, UI scaling issues, routine updates failing, random connectivity issues, random audio issues, printer issues…
I won’t lie, my Linux computers have random issues too, but way less often than the Windows machines I have to support every day. And when I encounter the Linux issues, I actually can fix them in a way that is permanent almost always.
Windows on the other hand, I typically fix and then the same problem starts happening again a few months later after an update, or the only “fix” that works is restarting the computer several times in a row.
To be fair to the Windows defenders, Windows 11 has easily been the worst for this in my experience. Windows 10 was more stable, and Windows 7 was even better. XP had lots of random issues, but back then you could still get under the hood pretty easily and make Windows do what you wanted.
Every personal device I have runs Linux and has for several years. I removed Windows completely from my life thank God, and I can’t imagine going back. I honestly would be more likely to stop using computers altogether before I went back to the horror show that is Windows/Microsoft.
The UIs and UXes in Linux are still shit and look like they are from 1998. Engineers are not great designers. I design UI and UX for windows and Linux for a living. I’m not professionally educated in design, but I know how to make a GUI look like it wasn’t a collab by Mattel and M.C Esher for use on a museum computer. That goes for apps and system features. The Bluetooth device GUI in Linux Mint is fuckawful.
Being able to consistently install things by downloading an exe from a website and just double click it is lacking.
The names of Linux software are also regularly dumb. Trying to be punny, clever, or cool. If it resized images, just call it Image Resized For Mint or something, not “Nautilus” or Nemo", they are forgettable and tell me nothing about the app “Uhh, it was something ocean themed, I think”. (This is true of Windows apps as well, Audacity, Figma Director, and Irfanview, I’m looking at you)
Apps “forgetting” the last-used settings, inc last used save file path, or user config, is a common issue too. Out of the box, apps should remember last-used settings without having to be told.
Window focus interfering with key capture is an issue too. Use Flameshot (a screen capture app) to take a region screenshot of a right-click context menu in another app - you can’t. Greenshots on windows does it fine.
I still persist with Mint, but the process is further from ‘Seamless’ than even windows 11, the shitshow it is.
Maybe I just hate all operating systems.
Being able to consistently install things by downloading an exe from a website and just double click it is lacking.
This is something I still have issues with. I’ve been running Mint on an old Mac mini for six or seven months now, and still have to think to remember what flavour of Linux it’s based on when trying to install software.
Then there’s the way it has software installed via the store, Flatpak, and the terminal, meaning I have multiple places that need software updates. And that doesn’t necessarily cover OS updates.
Don’t get me wrong, I like Mint, and I do enjoy the tinkering, but I kinda go by the “Could I put this on my mum’s laptop without her having trouble?” rule, and the answer is no. It’s close, but no.
KDE discover is one shop for all. You do update system, flatack, snap, addons and more with it. There is nothing to forget.
We have appimages too now
i mean with debian based instances you can basically do that with debs.
Well…
So fix it.
I can’t code lol
Why not mock up a bunch of dialogs/windows that linux mint uses now and show how they can be made better, then submit to the project? I’m a software dev that is not all that good with UI; I can do amazing things in terms of coding them up, but in terms of “pretty” or “logical”, its not my strength and you just need to team up with guys who can code very well. Gnome looks nice, but is a terrible project. If I was a mint dev I’d love the feedback to be honest. Don’t go out and design a replacement for everything, start with a few of the worst offendors and be polite and see where it goes, you don’t need to code to make a project successful, we need everybody from UI to translators to testers to marketing guys etc.
I don’t know how to submit design or get involved, but if be willing to do that. Do I need to join a group somewhere, or what?
I’d be happy to spend my spare time trying to improve the UX if I’m not wasting my time. I can even show a portfolio of my currently in-production work, which only totals about 15 seperate software apps across windows, Webapp, and android, but it’s something
My day-job is 50% technical writing, mostly writing software specs, and 50% UI/UX design for custom software used by aggressivly non-technical people, like warehouse staff, truck drivers, mechanics and mining exploration drillers. So I have to treat the users gently by giving them a clean, simple and intuitive design with just the right amount of guardrails, but tons of customisable functionality just under the surface. Many of my apps heavily rely on Bluetooth connections, which is why I’m picking on the Bluetooth interface. Average users are very intimidated by Bluetooth.
Never trained in either tech writing or design, and I’m not a design guru, but I understand enough to build consistent in design principles, easy to understand and use, and have rich functionality behind them.
Tell us what a good UI is
I’ll mock something up later and share my design.
FYI I didn’t downvote you or anyone else, Im not like that. There is just some downvote goblins getting around this thread
Don’t forget the common use issues, where to put file for startup in different distros, attaching external drive being able to access in all and every Software without touching terminal, not too have to use terminal at all for ANYTHING IN 2025
IMPOSSIBLE! But shhhhhhh , we are on Lemmy if you say Linux sucks you will be negatively marked , cause Linux is the best /s , gained 4% market share and what not Linux for consumers SUCKS! NO matter the distro
It took me a while to work out that the reason so much of Linux goes through the terminal is because that’s what the people who build Linux are used to. They put little to no effort into UX, then grumble that more normies aren’t adopting Linux.
I got my first Macbook in 2007, and honestly don’t think I touched Terminal for maybe four years. It just wasn’t at all necessary for day to day use. So having to wrap my head around terminal commands in order to do so much in Mint is quite a head fuck.
Linux UX philosophy:
I’m perfectly happy using terminal, both in Linux and windows. But not for basic things like installing a simple program. Sure I’ve done this in windows using wget or whatever, but maybe like 5 times ever? Like 2% of the time requires terminal with a 90% success rate on first try, and 95% success when trying for half a day. With Mint, require using terminal it’s like, 80% of the time, with a 30% success rate, and maybe 40% success rate after dickimg about with the errors for half a day.
Look, I don’t take preference with sides. Windows, Linux, android, Mac, I’ll happily call them all out on their various bullshit.
Kde plasma and gnome both look good, cachyos also has a nicer graphical installer than windows in a live os environment off the usb, can basically test the plasma ui without commiting
That’s why I’d love to see more developers take another look at Linux. Such that they may develop better proficiency in the basic katas of the internet. Such that they aren’t scared to connect a computer to the internet without the cover of a cloud.
I worked at a company building Unix. Later, it built a few releases of a Linux distro too. The people there were proficient documenters and app dev; build, release and support (escalation) devs; and some kernel devs so blindingly smart it made us normies’ tired just trying to keep up mentally.
Everyone used windows.
“Whot?!?” Yes, windows. Building Unix - the Unix - and a Linux distro, these super-capable black belts of the OS (borrowing your term) should be in Korn all day long.
Windows. WinAMP. VanDyke. Mozilla.
These people have the skill for it, but their preference was for windows. Because it was bad, but consistently so and presented a unified force to cope around.
I’ve worked on Linux my entire career, having used Linux since 94. But aside from a short window in 96, I’ve also done it with windows.
Windows. Spotify. Putty. SeaMonkey.
But most people do use Linux; Android is the most common OS, isn’t it?
Also guess what the Internet has always run on? *Nix.
