- cross-posted to:
- linux@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- linux@lemmy.ml
Stumbled across this quick post recently and thought it was a really good tale and worth sharing.
A couple of weeks ago, I saw a tweet asking: “If Linux is so good, why aren’t more people using it?” And it’s a fair question! It intuitively rings true until you give it a moment’s consideration. Linux is even free, so what’s stopping mass adoption, if it’s actually better? My response:
- If exercising is so healthy, why don’t more people do it?
- If reading is so educational, why don’t more people do it?
- If junk food is so bad for you, why do so many people eat it?
The world is full of free invitations to self-improvement that are ignored by most people most of the time. Putting it crudely, it’s easier to be fat and ignorant in a world of cheap, empty calories than it is to be fit and informed. It’s hard to resist the temptation of minimal effort.
And Linux isn’t minimal effort. It’s an operating system that demands more of you than does the commercial offerings from Microsoft and Apple. Thus, it serves as a dojo for understanding computers better. With a sensei who keeps demanding you figure problems out on your own in order to learn and level up.
Now I totally understand why most computer users aren’t interested in an intellectual workout when all they want to do is browse the web or use an app. They’re not looking to become a black belt in computing fundamentals.
But programmers are different. Or ought to be different. They’re like firefighters. Fitness isn’t the purpose of firefighting, but a prerequisite. You’re a better firefighter when you have the stamina and strength to carry people out of a burning building on your shoulders than if you do not. So most firefighters work to be fit in order to serve that mission.
That’s why I’d love to see more developers take another look at Linux. Such that they may develop better proficiency in the basic katas of the internet. Such that they aren’t scared to connect a computer to the internet without the cover of a cloud.
Besides, if you’re able to figure out how to setup a modern build pipeline for JavaScript or even correctly configure IAM for AWS, you already have all the stamina you need for the Linux journey. Think about giving it another try. Not because it is easy, but because it is worth it.
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Fuck DHH
Why? I don’t know much about this guy
Shit like this https://world.hey.com/dhh/are-we-past-peak-woke-c313b7d1
What if I need a program that is only available for windows?
If such an awful thing ever happpened to me in my personal life I’d change my needs.
In work of course I’m fucked, by stupidity rather than needs of course, but at least that’s only for 37.5 hours a week.
The app may be windows only, but it can often help to ask for alternative. And not things like “What can I use in Linux that is the same as <app> under Windows”. More along the lines of “I need to create or do <x>. In Windoze I used <app>, how do I get the same work done under Linux”. Sometimes you don’t have much of a choice, go emulation layer or VM, but often you can find a different path to the same result and once you get used to it, it’s often a better solution.
Like what? They all have linux versions, alternatives or work with wine, the main issue is sub based window ones since the way they verify licenses often has issues with wine. Im assuming you’re missing out on adobe or autodesk stuff?
If the programs cpu heavy its suprisingly not that hard to setup windows qemu whatever its called, it opens windows app as native linux windows even tho its an emulation it looks cleaner, but I had issues getting my gpu to work and even if it does I think your linux screen goes black when in use, it was just a hassle and trying to connect the gpu made me need to reset my linux install since my discrete gpu wouldnt work and I had no idea why. Worked fine til I tried to connect my discrete gpu and is very useful for cpu based programs.
This is not straightforward for the average user. There’s plenty of commercial or niche software that has no real alternative in Linux land. CAD being one - and I’m well aware of freecad, and I love it, but it ain’t a pro tool yet.
What average user uses CAD? I think you are conflating what an average user requires.
Type of user that uses/ want to swap to linux is more likely to be into cad compared to the average window user, just more tech related hobbies
- You may not actually need that app. There are many alternatives to Windows-only apps. 95% of the time, I use those. Web apps or Linux native apps.
or 2) you switch back to Windows when you really need that one app. Odds are, over time, you realize it’s actually #1.
I’m in the same boat, adobe can get fucked
compatibility layers makes 99% software work
or try a virtual windows instance if performace is not critical
Yeah, but for non-technical people this is an insurmountable barrier. My aunt isn’t “trying a virtual machine”.
the setup is straightfoward
people are just allergic to the terminal
you aunt can get a windows instance setup by someone competent and use that instance forever
Sysadmin here. I use Linux a lot on the job and in my homelab, but it’s true, I don’t wasn’t firefighting exercises off the clock. I just want to use my computer. Also, my systems are used by the whole family, and they sure as hell don’t want to learn Linux and become IT zealots.
I think one of the biggest hurdles for Linux is that Windows comes preinstalled. People are lazy, and want things to just work.
If companies could sell systems at a reasonable, competitive price, with Linux preinstalled; I do believe we could see folks use it.
The average user does not see a computer the same way a tech-savvy individual does. They want to push the buttons and the computer do the thing.
Sure steam has helped make it more viable for game enjoying folks to hop on board, even if it isn’t just click and play for every game; it has made strides.
We also need support from big entities, but that is likely an uphill battle. For as much as I love open source software, and the entire ecosystem surrounding open software standards; we have players like Microsoft, adobe, and I am sure more that will push back. Including DRM and Anti-Cheat from other companies as well.
The average user isn’t going to know, let alone fight things like kernel level anti-cheat, DRM, and closed standards.
Unfortunately not everyone has the will, the time, or the intelligence to learn something new.
And add in many folks inability to deal with change well.
This is just some of my thoughts on the subject…
Because I need something that works 100% of the time and supports all the software I need to use. I loved playing around with alternative os’s when I was younger, but it’s mostly for fun, to see if I can learn something, not for being productive.
Ive had way more problems getting things to work or with things just breaking for no reason with windows than i have with linux. People are so disingenuous with their ‘windows just works’ bullshit. Windows is a steaming hot pile of garbage that loves to fuck with you in completely irrational ways, while at least linux is predictable.
That is why I stick with Linux if I can. Last place I worked I kinda had to use windows and it was a pain. The options for having all the software I needed was WSL or using the Linux servers. The servers had lag, specially over VPN and WSL was constantly crashing. As well as the whole OS and that shit that was teams.
100% of the time? Alternative OS? Do you think there’s one OS and that’s windows? Do you think people who need something to work 100% of the time choose Microsoft?
good take while I love Linux I must admit it has been quite the struggle sometimes. But everything worthwhile in life takes effort. It’s not everybody’s cup of tea and I like it that way actually.
Well android uses Linux I found out.
Yes, I think the biggest hurdle for Linux is the tech crowd giving it a reputation for being difficult
What issues are you all talking about? I m a Linux user for eleven years now, the only issues you may have with them are only in the beginning when everything is not installed or sometimes not everything is perfectly installed and set up, once you finish with that you may get bored by how extremely stable they are, you just do your work and that’s it, and they stay like that forever, the only reason people are using windows is because they are pre installed, that’s the only truth.
To be fair, i installed linux on an old laptop and i just cannoy get the wifi to be reliable. I found myself reading about the minutia of intel wifi drivers and how wifi works in detail just to try tonsolve this issue.
I outright gave up on getting a printer to work.
This is an unrealistic experience for most people who just need a tool that works. Life is too short.
There are thousands of distros out there, pick another, I m sure one of them will work with WiFi just fine
See, that’s an adventure for months of late night tinkering.
Or just boot Windows and it will auto detect everything just fine. Done and done.
Not everyone is an adventurer. Most people just want to get on with it.
Lmao, yeah I love living like Indiana Jones! get real dude, we speak about a couple of hours work and that’s it
To be fair, i installed linux on an old laptop and i just cannoy get the wifi to be reliable. I found myself reading about the minutia of intel wifi drivers and how wifi works in detail just to try tonsolve this issue.
I had this exact experience. I tried multiple distros too. In the end I had to go back to windows because that’s the only way the wifi worked short of replacing hardware and it just wasn’t worth that.
A 5 to 15 dollar USB dongle was too much for you? There used to be a time when people understood they would need to buy compatible hardware for the OS. We’re not just talking Windows to Linux here, this same thing happens between Windows versions. Imagine switching to MacOS from Windows or to Windows from MacOS. “Guess MacOS doesn’t work on my Windows hardware. Whelp, back to Windows.”
A USB WiFi adapter was easily $100 at the time and besides, if I wanted to use dongles to achieve basic functionality I would have just bought an apple product.
Yep, makes sense. 1500 dollar Mac or a 100 dollar USB dongle. Logic checks out.
Little guys like this one were 5 dollars over ten years ago now. I know because this is the one I would tell folks upgrading from win7 or win8, to win10, to use when their wifi nic wasn’t supported. I also used them for my crypto miners.
Or he could just go back to an OS that works.
Thrse are real issues that block adoption of linux on the desktop. The answer isnt buy different hardware, its “how do we improve on things like this?”
when everything is not installed or sometimes not everything is perfectly installed and set up
I guess that’d be a major blocker for most people.
Correct, and it’s the same for any OS, and figuratively every user. The average user has no clue how to install an OS nor cares to do so. Few people switch the OS on their phone. Few switch to Windows on a Steam Deck. Nobody it trying out different OSes on their SmartTV. It’s the tech nerds that install OSes, they are the ones that switch. That’s why it’s always hilarious to read them complain about Linux needing to be made easy to install for the “average” user.
the only reason people are using windows is because they are pre installed, that’s the only truth.
This couldn’t be more true.
Screen tearing and things not being simple
Screen tearing is no longer an issue, at least on wayland. As for simple… it’s different.
Painting your room is to windows like building a house is to linux.
Windows makes it simple to paint your room while linux enables you to build whatever house you want. Nothing is ever free and as such - sometimes certain tradeoffs have to be made that get in a way of what you might consider “simple”.
I can’t use Linux because I can’t get the medication I need to read through the documentation. I am literally unable to focus on pages of details on my own and it’s crippling. If any issues come up, like trying to get an nVidia card to work, I can’t get through the help documents.
Linux is unhelpful by being so open. As much as folks don’t like rails on their operating system, it helps some of us get work done. I want to like Linux and have a laptop with Mint but it’s wireless card needs drivers and finding relief is non-existent.
There are computers purpose-built for running Linux, where all the drivers work out of the box.
Might be worth considering for your next upgrade.
You’ll less likely to stumble around if you just pick something that works instead of experimenting around.
May I suggest Linux Mint?
Sysadmin here. I work with linux every day, live and breathe.
And both my actual workstation and my home machine are windows.
Because for tasks that aren’t inherently problem-solvey, I don’t want to have to problem-solve.
For tasks that need tools and technical skills and poking it with a stick, absolutely do them on linux. Logfiles, strace, tcpdump, your programming language of choice, all the tools in the box.
But for file/print/email/office/internet/media/video gaem, lolno fuck that. Save your creative ingenuity and mental bandwidth for the things that actually need it; you don’t want to be reinventing the wheel every morning just to make breakfast.
For the mundane shit where you only care about the content, the UX on windows (or mac, for the people used to it) is just boringly unobtrusive, and thus the better choice.
Path of least resistance is at the electronics store and general support from marketed software. So lack of Linux hardware in stores and lack of well marketed software
20 years ago Apple at least had store presence and had their own software as major draws, Final Cut Pro, GarageBand people loved, and really as a brand MacBook’s are/were fashionable
Linux is widespread in software development and data science. It’s mainstream draw is still developing. Could be games. It could maybe someday be seen as the choice for content creators if the selection of media creation/editing continues to improve and have their Blender/Krita rise. Talking like Kdenlive, Ardour, GIMP, etc
I started using Linux as a liberal arts major in the late '90s. Both my grandparents (RIP) and my parents (partial RIP) kept having issues with Windows on their computers. I was constantly being called to help them with crap. 20+ years ago I asked if I could try something and they didn’t care, as long as it worked. Debian and XFCE. Configured their email, hooked up the printer. Suddenly the service issues went from several times a week to once every 5+ years. And 90% of those issues just was clearing out the printer queue. I have never once understood the LiNuX iS OnlY FoR suPer TeCH NeRDS bullshit.
You’re right in that case - most “granny” users just need a browser and maybe a printer. Don’t need Windows, you could probably run that on a Raspberry.
The catch is when they want more, like their VoIP App that only hat Mac and Windows installers, or some arcane HP scanner with 32 bit Windows 7 drivers. Or they are competent and want an actual full MS Office suite including Excel formulas and functions; Calc is still not on par. Or, kicker, if they actually need to exchange Office files with others without lossy conversions.
Everytime I’d installed Linux, I would run into having to run/copy paste random scripts here and there without any clue what I’m doing. Then after a few months it’s total carnage and I end up just logging into Windows. It might be much better now with LLM’s though. Also last time I was using my pc mostly to play CS:GO on FaceIt while chatting on Discord, which I was not able to do on linux.
Worst take ever. Outside of Desktop, Windows gets dominated by Linux. Even on Azure, Linux is the number one OS over MS’s Windows Server. Windows is free on IoT and still Linux dominates. So what makes Desktop different? 30 years of Microsoft’s vendor lock-in strategy. All the OEMs have to invest into Windows because they have to take the volume licensing deal from Microsoft or be priced out. This ensures Windows engineering efforts for drivers, software, and testing. Because the machines were Windows, 3rd party hardware and software had to invest into Windows as well. When there is no vendor lock-in, Linux receives the money for engineering efforts and dominates Windows. Nobody complains about having Linux on their Smart TV. Right, because the money for engineering efforts are not forced to be put toward Windows. How many people are switching their Steam Deck to Windows 80%? 50%? 10%? 1%,? more like ~0.1% switch. The money is there to make a great experience and so there is almost no reason to switch. It’s only the tech nerds that are installing OSes. Average people don’t even know what Windows or Linux is. When Microsoft loses it’s lock-in strategy, Linux will take over. Nobody is choosing Windows for Desktop. It’s just what comes on the machine at the store.
I worry that for 3rd parties to put forth any effort, there needs to be incentives… which would be in the form of demand… which isn’t there yet because they don’t put any effort into it.
MS is playing a dangerous game (for them). If they turn the screws on users hard enough then Linux might gain enough market share for there to be real demand. I’m trying to get people to switch but the lack of third party support makes it a minefield sometimes.
The incentive for consumer Linux is controlling the app store.
Google leverages its control of the app store to make money on Android. Valve has invested in Linux in order to have an alternate OS in case Windows becomes hostile.
for 3rd parties to put forth any effort, there needs to be incentives… which would be in the form of demand
I mean this is it. That’s why Microsoft’s vendor lock-in strategy has kept Windows dominant on Desktop. It guarantees money will be spent on Windows first and foremost for all these OEMs. Which guarantees 3rd party support.
If they turn the screws on users hard enough then Linux might gain enough market share for there to be real demand
Regular users wont switch to Linux until the machine comes preinstalled with Linux. Microsoft can screw over their customers and the average user will just have to take it. The average users just doesn’t know any better. Ultimately, average users need to see a machine they want to buy in a brick and mortar store. As long as Microsoft’s vendor lock-in strategy is in affect, the average user will never see a Linux machine, from your typical OEM, even to unknowingly consider. But, if Valve releases a Steam Console, they could put that machine in a brick and mortar store. Lots of regular average users would buy it for the gaming, not realizing it’s Linux. Eventually they would learn they could use the desktop mode in a pinch (same as what happened with the Steam Deck). When they realize the desktop mode works just as well as their PC, likely, they will stop buying a PC altogether. It will be like when PlayStation sold their PS2. Lots of people just bought a PS2 because it came with a DVD player. DVD player sales declined rapidly. If something similar happens with a Steam Console, Linux would have a market share 3rd party developers could not ignore. I don’t know if that would break Microsoft’s vendor lock-in strategy, but I think 10M - 20M Steam Consoles sold every year would definitely get the attention of 3rd party hardware vendors and software vendors for at least the gaming market. And all that would be supported on desktop Linux too; making it even easier for the tech nerds to switch. Then you are just waiting on the network affect to take off.
We will have to see, what unfolds in the next couple years.
Regular users wont switch to Linux until the machine comes preinstalled with Linux.
I think there is a share of enthusiasts who will be willing to give Linux a shot as Microsoft continues to turn the screws. I know someone with a steam deck that has been impressed with it and even uses discord on it from the desktop mode. Maybe not many regular users but a subset of more technical users who haven’t yet been driven to try. Add in those of us willing to suggest Linux to friends and family and then support them as “regular” users when they try to adopt it. There are also a number of smaller companies who are selling and supporting devices with Linux installed from the factory. There is a chance to start to tip the scales, maybe.
I’ve been wanting to switch to Linux for years, but it was always too intimidating for me since I’m not a computer programmer. In the end, it took a roommate who was tech savvy to help install it and answer a few questions. Took about 10 minutes of his time but I still felt like a burden
