Just chiming to throw some light hearted shade at lemmy.world for defederating from the piracy communities. My time on lemmy.world was really poor, and I came away not thinking too highly of Lemmy as a whole. My experience in different instances has been a world of difference, and I finally get fantastic content in my feeds and am fully on board with Lemmy
Yep, their defederation from piracy comms and moderation of Luigi-related politics are my two biggest gripes with the instance administration itself.
Which instance are you using? I’ve been using world since start, but open to others. Never really looked into it too much.
EE is nice. They won’t defederate with just about anyone. But so far the mod assholery has been minimal.
I’m on lemm.ee! It seems to have a good balance of users and sensible defederation. On mobile, the app you use make a world of a difference too. Both Jerboa and Thunder (Android) were mid tier experiences, but now I’m using Boost and it’s phenomenal!
Hexbear.net (currently chapo.chat) is good, if you’re a Communist or Anarchist. What kind of interests do you have? Dbzer0 has a bunch of great piracy resources, as an example.
a Communist or Anarchist
What a clever way to say anarchists aren’t communists. I’m proud of you, tankie. You guys are always so subtle.
That’s not what I was implying, historically “Communist” has been used for Marxists. Anarcho-Communism is only one type of Anarchist, there are Anarcho-Syndicalists, Anarcho-Primitivists, etc, meanwhile Marxism is always Communist.
Anarchists and Marxists do want different end-results, Anarchists want full decentralization and Marxists want full centralization and democratization, but are aligned in opposition to Capitalism and Imperialism and wish to create a more just and equitable society for all.
Marxism is always Communist
Well, if you mean genuine marxists, then yes. But many non-marxist, non-communist groups call themselves marxists, such as Stalinists, who argue for Socialism In One Country against Marx’s advice. You’ve got to look out for those.
Socialism in One Country isn’t against Marx at all. The argument between Socialism in One Country and Permanent Revolution was whether it was worth building up Socialism while also supporting global revolution, or devote all resources to global revolution and give up on Socialism until then. Permanent Revolution ended up being generally wrong, and depended on the Peasantry being incapable of genuine alliance with the Proletariat, which was wrong.
Genuinely, what do you think Socialism in One Country means to where it goes against Marx? Communism must be global, but Socialism begins with the Proletariat taking control.
Loads of instances do not federate with hexbear.
Surely it’s only a good instance if you’re happy with a much less federated experience, to say nothing of the usual complaints people have of hexbear users.
There are some instances that defederated from Hexbear, but largely instances like Lemmy.world. Hexbear is active enough on its own, federation is just a bonus.
I’m curious why you said “instances like Lemmy.world”
https://chapo.chat/post/505181
Looks like the nice people, the canadians, the LGBT, the trans people, the furries, the new zealanders, the programmers, the germans, and the environmentalists defederated with Hexbear, in terms of instances that have a strong theming. The only common trend I can identify between those groups is that they all tend left of center. Except perhaps the germans, given current events.
So when you said “instances like Lemmy.world”, did you mean leftists?
Not at all, I mean generally right-wing liberal instances. Many Leftist or general instances are federated with Hexbear, like Mander or Lemm.ee.
We could go into the reasons for defederation, if you want.
Ah, so you mean that many right wing instances are deferated, and ALSO the queers, the trans people, and the furries. Interesting. If both the left and the right are opposed to Hexbear, that would logically suggest Hexbear is centrist.
I think it would be cool if something like “meta-communities” existed. Fully adjustable, fully optional. Less duplicates.
You’d sub to one meta c/memes or c/news and see a combined feed of all known instance’s versions. Post to whichever you want, show up in the meta (if you want).
If you still want to block from the meta sub or individually sub to c/memes on ABC instance, you could do that. Moderation would be subject to the instance the user posted on, subject to broader instance admin’s defederations and stuff.
Idk just a quick idea. Decentralization is good, but a little bit of… aggregation like this could go a long way without actually centralizing power. Could help communities (big and small niche) to grow.
So, think through how this looks in the long run. Hell, just think about what this prioritizes.
You have five communities covering the same topic. There’s, what? 500? 1000? 2000 people active in them? Enough that there is a steady stream of posts and comments in all of them. They’re all housed on separate websites, and those websites maybe have different goals and different rules. So, people start lumping them together in aggregate feeds.
What does that look like? In practice, how do users treat this?
They treat it as if they’re all one community. As if they’re all in one place. All managed by one cohesive set of rules (or, realistically, most people treat all spaces as if none of them have rules, and then put up a stink when they’re met with the consequences of this).
Then, they start expecting to not see duplicates. So, which community’s posts do they see when there are multiples? Oh, that’s easy: all of them! They will start expecting comments to be merged. So, now you have people treating all of the communities not only as if they’re interchangeable, but as if they’re all one.
This is a backdoor to not just homogenization, but to quiet hostile takeovers of smaller communities by larger ones. All because users are too damn entitled to just pick one that most closely meets their needs and contribute to it.
We don’t need meta-communities. We need people to get over their fucking FOMO.
Those are actually all really good points. Nevermind about my idea then…
I’ve been saying this over a year ago:
https://lemmy.world/comment/708523
This why lemmy and federation instances are so missing and empty. We don’t even have the option to make custom subscription lists or I’d have manually done that. It’s so badly needed
Isn’t RSS what you’re describing?
Not exactly but that’s a good way to think about it in essence. These metacommunities would be purpose built for and integrated into lemmy though, otherwise it would just be RSS which doesn’t address the fragmentation issue.
Sounds like a whole app idea.
This is a fantastic idea. I really love the decentralization of Lemmy, but I do feel the side effects of having many copies of the same subject on different instances.
And to your point, I’d love for niche communities to have a larger audience. I need somewhere to post and read about project zomboid.
How about rebasing instead of merging to get a more linear meme history?
no
Thanks for this detailed reasoning.
ok
There should be a way to see the content from different communities with the same name but from different instances in the same page, like some sort of automatic multireddit. The content would probably be limited to instances federated with your home instance but even then it’s something I would like to have.
You cannot assume that communities with the same name are meant to be on the same topic.
Say I set up an instance focused on discussing parties at home. There are fun in-person games you can play with your friends when many of you are over, so I would create a community c/games for discussing them. Now, what if I want my instance to federate with lemmy.world? They already have a c/games that is dedicated to videogames. Maybe I also would need a community dedicated to videogames, but I’d have to call it c/videogames, because I already have a c/games.
Some human intervention would be required to let the network know that the local c/videogames is the one that has to federate with lemmy.world’s c/games, and not the local c/games.
Maybe an automatic suggestion would be fine as a starting point, but it would be more useful that communities themselves could explicitly establish which remote communities they are associated with, without depending on the names.
That’s actually a pretty idea. I’m imaging something like a tool included into lemmy where you can collect different subs into one folder and even share these/export those folders as xml or json to a new account… And now we’re talking about RSS-feeds. Basically.
But RSS-feeds included into lemmy. I don’t really know if that would help to get rid of reposts, but it’s certainly an interesting idea. Something one would have to integrate in an Lemmy update, so you would need to contribute to the Lemmy code.
I actually love this idea. I’m on a federated service, why do I need to go to 3 meme communities on 3 instances when I could go to “meme” and see all of them?
Crossposts from within the cross-feed could be automatically hidden to avoid showing the same post multiple times, and then we just start spreading the word to crosspost instead of reposting. I think the only issue is that this would definitely be better to implement client-side because AP is just a protocol to move data, whereas this requires checking too many user-defined variables to make it idiomatic easily. I could be wrong though, I don’t know the AP code very well
I blocked .world because it’s a centrist shit hole that serves to do nothing but piss me off with whiners who don’t do shit about fuck complaining about tankies and fascists as though their no side taking ass even has a fucking seat at the table.
Fuck .world
If I could only take sides with tankies ot fascist, I wouldnt chose sides either.
I’d take the Marxists over the literal Nazis 10000 times out of 10000, and not a single time would there even be a microsecond of contemplation. One only need to know that the Nazis industrialized mass murder and the Communists focused on improving the lives of the working class to know that it isn’t even worth comparing.
Dude you need to broaden your circles
Oh look holocaust trivialization
Ok, that needs a little explaination
Painting Communists and fascists as equal evils originated as a form of Holocaust trivialization called “Double Genocide Theory.” The reality is that Communists have historically been an overall quite positive force compared to liberalism and fascism. I recommend reading Blackshirts and Reds to see an honest comparison and critique that highlights just how wrong equating fascism with Communism is.
First of all: I didnt set them equal. I just said I wouldnt chose either. If you are offering me two meals: A deadly vial of arsenic and some garbage out of your trash, i wouldnt chose too.
And furthermore: Tankie (as far as I understand this word) doesnt mean communist. And the communists I know, dont want to be seen like this.
So please try not to mention the shoah thoughtlessly in such discussions. Because this would definitly mean a trivialization.
Equal or similar in awfulness, neither is accurate to reality, and again, has roots in the aforementioned method of Holocaust trivialization called Double Genocide Theory.
“Tankie” is a caricature. The idea of a tankie is the ideal vision of a McCarthyian Communist. In reality, the overwhelming majority of people labeled as such don’t actually fit that label, it’s more of a way to cast an image of someone’s positions based on, say, support for AES countries, and twist that into the evil Commie Pinko that haunts the dreams of 1960s children in the US.
No Communist wants to be seen as this caricature, they’d rather be seen as the Marxists they are, but those who use the term “Tankie” as though it has any meaning contribute to the demonization of Communists.
Ok another try:
If I get offered 2 options, and both options are bad for me, I wouldn’t choose either. By this, I dont rank their “badness”, I just tell that those options are not suitable for me. Not more not less.
Like arsenic and trash. They are both not suitable for me. But I dont rank them. I just say " no".
I my bubble the term tankie means somethin like a neo-sowjet, who thinks that the SU was heaven on earth. Not a communist. To be honest, I havent invested any real effort in researching this. But I just quotet the word, theyre not my words.
And once again Please try not to mention the shoah thoughtlessly in such discussions. Because this would definitly mean a trivialization.
Hey i remember you. last time we had this convo and i pointed out some key facts about the dissolution of the USSR (after you claimed it was murdered) you threw an epic tantrum and started screaming about fake news.
I don’t remember any of that at all, mind linking it? What facts did I deny? The USSR was dissolved intentionally, not really as a result of inherent issues with Socialism, that’s true at least.
What a wonderful misrepresentation of reality. Ah well, as you said, it’s modlogged so good luck pretending
Cowbee already answered your question but I’d like to point out that as a German you really need to be careful about what propaganda you believe about the Soviet Union and Stalin. Keep in mind that Germans killed 26 million soviet citizens less than a hundred years ago.
First they came for the tankies, and I said good fuck em that’s between y’all
isn’t the point of the fediverse to not consolidate?
There’re some different ideas in the thread now, basically a fediverse type of consolidation.
I created an instance for one specific community so that users won’t be affected by who federates from who (unless you’re a spam instance or something like that)
Options are better than useless limitations (ignoring scope creep)
my man has no idea on the motivation behind federation
It’s still federated.
the motivation behind federation
They are just trying to say that you don’t want all your eggs in one basket. In my opinion it’s better to have it posted once on either and it shows up in my list. The logic is that if everyone posts on 1 instance, that instance ends up having more power over other instances. For instance it can defederate with another instance and since all the content is on theirs those users would be forced to start over, or join the bigger instance and abide by their rules. Slowly you end up back in a situation like reddit. Where maybe they put ads in, and you have to choose ads and active number of users, or no ads and very little content starting fresh. Spreading out content helps combat enshitification if you will.
It didn’t used to be like this. Maybe take it up with the brave patriot who’s made it his sacred duty to repost ml memes to world, in the hopes of convincing the world admins to defederate from ml. https://lemmy.world/comment/15251475
lol!
critical support to that lone soldier, I hope he succeeds in his mission, I would love to never see another .world post
Oh no, whatever will all the rest of us do without chronic reposters who are allergic to reading articles?
MAKE .WORLD EVERYTHING!
Õr mãybê dõñ’t
The issue is that lemmy.world is having federation issues bc they didn’t update to last release
Yes, but on which instance? Lemmy.ml is not controversy free and Lemmy.world already hosts like 50% of Lemmy alone. I think the only viable option that everyone could agree on would be another instance, but that would just leave us with 3 communities.
Exactly. Instead why don’t let grow MORE NICHE communities with specific kind of memes on smaller instances?
The larger communities are easier to find and have more subscribers, people can post to one of the smaller ones, but very few people will see it.
That happens on active but themed instances like Hexbear, the problem is the drive to replicate a “generalist” instance. The fewer “general” instances the better the niches grow.
An entire meme instance with no users attatched to it with multiple specific meme communities
I created dullsters.net just for just one community, it could be more if there were demand for dull content or another dull community wanted to come over, but I don’t have any plans to make it some big thing.
I think the only viable option that everyone could agree on would be another instance, but that would just leave us with 3 communities.
Relevant XKCD:
I agree, theres no need to fight
Just post only in one community. Not that hard.
All my homies hate .world and rightfully so.
Moving more communities away from .world is what we should be doing not the other way around.
As others have pointed out, if you try to move to .world people will just riot and make a new community elsewhere. Dont try, its a ridiculously stupid idea.
Again something the mods have to talk about. It’s something the mods have to discuss about (the community can take part in that discussion too, democracy and stuff). We could for example merge to lemmy.ml.
All my homies hate .ml and rightfully so.
Moving more communities away from .ml is what we should be doing not the other way around.
As others have pointed out, if you try to move to .ml people will just riot and make a new community elsewhere. Dont try, its a ridiculously stupid idea.
Most people don’t hate Lemmy.ml, it’s a vocal minority more common on some instances than others.
I’m sure this is the majority opinion on this instance… I’ve got a comment removed on .ml for criticizing it so no wonder you don’t see such comments often
I got banned from Lemmy.world’s political memes community for questioning why mods were removing comments pointing out the Democrat’s involvement with the genocide in Palestine.
Overall, most users are fine with Lemmy.ml, the haters tend to be concentrated on liberal or otherwise anti-left instances.
To be clear: I’m not arguing for .world either. We should decentralize and focus on smaller instances
Sure, but the way to do that isn’t to create tons of general instances, but more specialized ones around a general topic. Lemmy.ml focuses on FOSS and Privacy, and Hexbear focuses on Leftist politics.
.ml is on of the most abusive and censored communities I have ever seen. While I generally agree with their anti imperialism it ends there.
I’ve been censored far more on Lemmy.world, and never on Lemmy.ml. I got permabanned from Political Memes on Lemmy.world for asking why the mods were removing comments pointing out the Democrats involvement in the genocide of Palestinians, and was tempbanned from Lemmy.world’s asklemmy comm for calling out transphobia.
Lemmy.ml is one of the better servers with respect to “censorship,” it doesn’t defederate from the Leftist instances and it removes bigotry pretty much instantly.
Blocked for denying reality.
Where did I “deny reality?” Lmao. Disagreeing with your opinion isn’t some unholy sin.
Least melodramatic .world user
Idk the authoritarian dick sucking tankies are kind of a turn off
I’d say the homophobia/misogyny coming from your comment is more of a turn off to me than Marxists, personally.
Dictatorships are cringe and your attempt to deflect from your shit beleifs is also cringe.
I don’t support dictatorships, and your belief that homophobia and misogyny is okay when attacking people you don’t agree with is a key sepparation between you and me.
I’m scared
Funny but not surprising that my comment got deleted and the one that says the same thing about .world not. They couldn’t prove my point better
