I mean there’s male, female, and intersex who make up less than 1% of the population. Nothing about gender. This isn’t the flex trump thinks it is…
I’m a straight old white male European, so hope you don’t mind me posting here. I’m just curious about what impact this will have? It seems to me, that “freedom of speech” can easily be interpreted that it’s ok to hate non straight people? Medical treatments might be impaired as well? Also: hate groups like Proud boys and White Lives Matter might very well feel emboldened to get violent, certainly after Elons “gesture”. As a European, I fear the worst as this crap looks extremely familiar. What are your thoughts/expectations/fears?
First of all, you’re absolutely welcome to post here as an ally.
Secondly, I found an informative article on thr queer news website them which explained everything:
The order, titled "Defending Women From Gender Ideology Extremism and Restoring Biological Truth to the Federal Government,” was one of more than 200 executive actions Trump issued on the first day of his second term, […] disbanding federal programs on diversity, equity, and inclusion. […] the document seeks to redefine gender at the federal level, erase recognition of trans people in government communications, cease the issuance of gender-corrected U.S. passports, bar incarcerated trans women from being housed in women’s prisons, deny gender-affirming medical care to trans inmates, embolden transphobia in the workplace, and block federal dollars from being used to “promote gender ideology.”
I live in the UK, so I only know what I’m being told, but the situation looks pretty dire over there.
Thanks, doesn’t sound good at all. There is lots of worrying that Elons billions will enable him to push the extreme right wing political parties with similar views here in Europe. Some think this will be a great thing, but luckily they are still a minority at the moment. But for how long? Take care people, as I expect groups like the Proud Boys will harass you and get away with it.
Wonder if this result in media banning this and to what extent. Like is ranma 1/2 being pulled?
“no, he just wants to be a boy again after his parent turned him into a girl during a trip to China”
Rofl it’s hilarious how well that fits.
I can’t seem to find a good quality version of this image. Any leads?
Edit: oh. My internet was just sucking and it did not resolve.
Crazy complexity and that diagram is just about the genitals
After the Executive Order Defending Women from gender ideology extremism…, it’s much simpler now (in the US)
Did you make that? That’s genius I’m sharing that.
Heh, yeah. Probably could be better, but share away!
Is he gonna sign one to abolish gravity too?
He should sign one that says the flag was at absolutely, definitely not at half mast.
He’ll sign one that there are only four elements: Fire, Earth, Air, and Water.
But what’s his stance on the Humors?
By executive order Humors are illegal to stop people laughing at him.
Lol that’s pretty good. Wouldn’t put it past him
I’m thinking trump and the Republican party are really bad, like cruel and stupid bad, and maybe we shouldn’t let them give orders anymore.
How do I cross post?
The article title is misleading. It’s true that there are only two sexes, but Trump’s order is concerning gender, which is a spectrum.
There’s are scientifically more than two sexes. Something like 1-2% of all people are intersex.
You’d think that, but really, I suspect a lot of the confusion comes from the word itself. “Intersex” implies with its “inter-” prefix that something exists between the two sexes, thus implying the existence of a third (or more) sex.
But again, it’s just a blanket term that covers a wide variety of medical conditions related to development of sex organs/characteristics.
And I shouldn’t have to say this, but of course I’m not saying that one’s anatomy has any influence on one’s worth as a person. I’m not a monster. I’m just a stickler for semantic accuracy.
I’m not a monster. I’m just a stickler for semantic accuracy.
For what reason? What use does it have? Because as it stands, you’re arguing in favor of a false dichotomy that, though you may be against them, is still used by bigots to justify their hate. Weighed against “semantic accuracy,” I don’t really think that’s worthwhile.
They will call it “multisex” and come up with treatments to “fix” the “medical issue”.
They already do that with the more obviously intersex children at birth.
Intersex people popping out of existence upon reading your comment
Male and female are the only sexes; intersex is just a blanket term for various medical conditions that describe abnormal development of sex characteristics.
And some of them are not obviously male or female from birth, but are given surgeries to force them into one or the other. Sometimes they get it wrong.
It’s natural and harmless to have any combination of male and female sexual characteristics, even if it’s uncommon. It’s only considered medical condition because we decided it was.
My friend has a uterus and gonads. I have red hair and blue eyes. Both are super uncommon and neither has caused us any trouble, that’s just how we’re made.
I’d argue that male and female are just names for the ends of the spectrum.
Yep. Nothing wrong with it. Everybody’s abnormal in some way. Doesn’t mean we should redefine scientific terms or “other” someone just because their abnormality has to do with sex characteristics.
Personally, I go out of my way to not be normal, but most people want to fit in, and especially don’t want to be seen as different or lesser because of something they can’t control.
What’s wrong with redefining scientific terms? Unless you’re one of those “Pluto is still a planet” people, then I guess we’ll agree to disagree, but I prefer to update terms that no longer fit our understanding.
Doesn’t mean we should redefine scientific terms
If “male” and “female” are the terms you’re referring to here, I’d disagree quite a bit. Language is a fluid and imprecise thing, and words are going to mean different things to different people, as well as change over time whether we want them to or not. Hell, just look at how messy things get whenever a transphobe tries and fails (yet again) to define these words in a way that doesn’t result in Diogenes walking in holding a chicken.
The reality is that both terms are labels on boxes we try to sort people into, for better and for worse. There’s no good reason to get overly attached to them; like any categorization, they will fail regularly, as the universe does not care for the shapes of our boxes.
So you’re saying if you call a sex abnormal, it doesn’t exist?
Nobody said that. Nobody would say that. Be reasonable.
If you’re actually interested in understanding what I’m saying, this article does a good job of explaining it in lay-friendly terms.
So, if neither variation of sex characteristics nor personal identity defines the category of sex, then how can we define it? The answer is simple. The category of biological sex is defined through what developmental pathway you went down for the production of either sperm or eggs–the two, and only two, gamete types.
Nah, variation in sex characteristics is a way better measure than gamete development, because variation in sex characteristics actually relates to the person as they exist now. Grown adult human beings are not gametes.
I always find it weird that conservatives think this is some kind of gotcha for binary trans people. Like, okay, this is a shitty thing to say to nonbinary or intersex people and is both untrue and cruel. But how is this relevant to me, a binary trans woman?
Like… hello my gender isn’t ‘trans’, it’s ‘woman’. Idiots.
And even then, it goes beyond gender. Even the idea that you can’t change your sex is laughable. “Sex,” despite what some TERFs insist, is not traditionally or in practice today determined by DNA. We’ve learned that chromosomes play a primary factor in determining sex, but your sex isn’t your DNA. A blueprint isn’t a house; a house is a house. The blueprint just tells you how to build a house.
Physical sex is really about primary and secondary sex characteristics. If a trans woman undergoes SRS for example, her sex is literally female. She has the same anatomy as an infertile woman, or woman whose had a hysterectomy.
And this is the traditional way of defining sex. We referred to people’s “sex” for generations prior to discovering DNA. And even today, we sex infants entirely based on their genitalia. Actual genetic screening is incredibly rare.
Bigots just latch onto “sex==genetics” because it allows them an easy cudgel. But in reality, if your primary and secondary sex characteristics are of a certain sex, you are that sex. Does the initial cellular blueprint indicate a different sex? Assuming you’re not intersex, sure. But again, DNA is just a blueprint.
The example I always like is the house/boat example. Imagine you owned a wooden boat. That boat was made by a particularly prideful boat builder, and every plank of the boat is stamped, “Smith’s shipbuilding co.” One day you get tired of sailing the waves, so you take your boat, disassemble it, and use the planks to build a house. You now live in a house where every board is stamped “Smith’s shipbuilding co.”
Imagine the absurdity of someone coming to your home and telling you, “you live in a boat! Every board clearly labels this building as a boat. Therefore, you must live in a boat.”
That is the fallacy of relying on genetics to define sex. Chromosomes are just the initial blueprints or the equivalent of the “Smith shipbuilding co.” stamp.
It’s only shitty to intersex people, non-binary is a gender not a sex.
From the article:
The definition of male and female will be based on whether people are born with eggs or sperm, rather than on their chromosomes.
What did you say your gender was?
Well nobody is born with sperm so…
There are no males.
Accidental utopia.
True Feminism means acknowledging that women can be just as fallible as men.
Not sure I’d call a world made up of breeders, the undesirable, and Elon’s sperm bank, much of an utopia.
How do they confirm that? Surgery?
First they came for the enbies
In fairness part of the decree is that it also can’t be changed, so definitely still an impact to both binary and nonbinary trans folks. Also love the downplay of enby impacts, if it doesn’t impact you it doesn’t matter?
Read my post before you reply to it. Thanks.
How does your post contradict what they said? You asked how it impacts a binary trans person, and they explained that the part about it being unchangeable is supposed to target y’all (and all trans people).
I know a lot of us, probably most of us, haven’t changed so much as taken ownership of who we always were. So yeah I guess technically this order isn’t a “gotcha”, but unfortunately that’s not how transphobes see it. :(
They did and you’re being unnecessarily rude.
This is an executive order, not a law. That doesn’t make it any less terrible, however. Those commenting it is just political posturing are seriously misinformed at the wide range and scope this action will (not might, not could, WILL) have on you. Anything even tangentially related to getting work done, grants made, research funded with the federal government will be effected. In brief, the scope and impact of an executive order can vary greatly depending on the specific issue and the details of the order itself. This one will likely be meant to ensure that grant making, contracts, research, and legal recourse for those not subscribing to it’s narrow and, frankly, archaic definitions will have a very difficult time interacting with the federal government in a variety of ways.
The bright side is an Executive Order effects federal branches of government under authority of the presidency. They can be undone by future presidents and challenged/overturned after judicial review. Remember the “Muslim ban?” That was one example.
I’m scared.
Knew this was going to happen with the election results. Everyone is telling me to keep calm. That the president wont effect the daily lives of citizens. Yeah I’m sure they told the american Japanese the same before the camps.
Find community. Meet in person regularly if you can. Just existing in community is huge, if for nothing else than your own emotional, mental, and physical health. We are thinking of you all from outside the US 🫂
My workplace’s LGBT resource group is meeting soon. Hoping for good news. I’m wondering why I still live in the US at this point - I have no living family or close friends here and work in an in-demand field. May as well sell my house and move somewhere that I’m welcome.
I would suggest you look into it, at the very least! Leaving was the best decision I ever made.
May I ask what country you went to? The options are staggering.
New Zealand! It’s not perfect, but with a population of only 5 million, we do a lot better taking care of each other. I live on the south island, so it’s even smaller. We have a fairly conservative govt right now, just like most places the economic downturn encouraged a right shift, but the culture here has been very progressive historically, and the people still are. I feel much more hopeful pushing back on hate here than I did in Texas, and it feels like it’s impactful as opposed to in the US where it feels like pushing back against a river.
NZ is actually at the top of my list! Would you go as far as recommending it for a US expat?
Absolutely. It’s not a utopia, but it’s a huge step up from the US.
Me too 😔
Many hugs. We’ll get through this.
Jfc this is going to affect intersex people more than trans people.
We were just at the cusp of addressing how fucked up fitting intersex people into one of two boxes is.
this will more than likely get dragged through the courts for the entire term by multiple cases.
plus there’s all the legislation that would have to be rewritten or repealed to support this ‘policy’, that would never get through congress without a larger moron majority than exists currently.
Legal laws can’t change scientifically established theory. If he wants to do some unbiased research though…
…he’d probably prove himself wrong
He’s probably going to sign an order to make everyone be nice to him next.
The “respect my authorta” bill
Yes, unironically.
