I just need xdotool. ydotool is missing almost everything. I don’t need programs sandboxed from each other. I don’t need that multi-DPI stuff (200% scaling works fine in X). Wayland doesn’t provide any features I’m missing.
If you’re on KDE there is kdotool , kdotool - a xdotool clone for KDE Wayland that works in conjunction with ydotool
Thanks, that looks a little better, but still missing things like sending keystrokes to non-active windows. (Also, I’m on Mate desktop on most my computers.)
I’ve gotta be honest, the desktop environment situation on Linux does not impress me.
I’m on Cosmic which is decent, but there are all sorts of silly oversights in KDE and gnome, and windows have weird mixes of styles and toolbar display modes.
Is great that Linux is modular, but seriously gtk vs QT vs whatever else needs a heavy duty cleanup.
I agree, however Windows and macOS are even worse in this regard IMO. Everything is just totally inconsistent and the window management features are very barebones. Using either one feels like going back 10 years or more.
The CSD trend might have some upsides but i find it mainly just makes apps ugly and any added functionality is almost always redundant.
Kvantum really helps make Plasma more consistent, not sure if there is a similar addon for GNOME
Up to macOS 26 (the latest OS with Liquid Glass) consistency was great. You’d have to go back to the PowerPC era or X11 integration to find issues. Now I have windows with different toolbar button sizes and corner radii and it’s stupid as hell.
I agree on window management tools, but I used third party ones on Mac for a decade and they worked okay. Obviously not as good as i3 type ones.
Apps should only use cad if they are really using the space like browsers with their tab bar. That gnome forces every app to provide them is really stupid.
macOS are even worse in this regard IMO. Everything is just totally inconsistent
Why do you mention macOS if you haven’t used it?
Gotta love that thing on Windows when you mouse up to hard top right and click to close the window. In some situations it’ll focus and close a random window behind the one you’re wanting to kill.
When I updated KDE and found that I had lost the cube desktop switcher effect I was fairly put off on Wayland and made a lot of effort to get the cube back in various ways which did not go well. Now that it’s on Wayland, albeit slightly different, I am content with staying on Wayland. I can’t thank the people who ported it enough. It may seem like a trivial graphic effect to some but that fraction of a second that it uses when switching desktops is something that helps my ADHD tremendously. If I’m getting frustrated with a project I can switch to something else and something about that visualization helps me keep everything organized mentally. I use 4 virtual desktops, each with it’s own project subject matter, one for each side of the cube, excluding the top and bottom.
This meme imagary is from the movie Seven Psychopaths. It’s a very good movie.
Do the other effects for switching desktops, like the default slide, not accomplish the same thing? I also find that having no animation makes it harder to keep track of where things are, but just have the sliding one
I’m pretty sure you can get that effect in the desktop effects menu in kde settings
Yes now you can. But not initially. The old cube effect was removed and later re-implement
Wayland is the one thing that fixed a whole shit-ton of my problems overnight and now I find out nobody wants to use it under any circumstances.
¯\(ツ)/¯ Alrighty thenPlenty use it without knowing as it is what the Steam Deck uses in gaming mode.
Almost everyone uses it. We just never make posts about “our configuration works effortlessly, give us attention”
Only people with a bone to chew and shit to stir feel the need to post such things. Back in the day it was people who felt superior for debugging their steaming pile of init shell spaghetti, now it’s people who just can’t live without diving into X11 configuration files.
The people who use it happily don’t make memes about it. I do have some weird errors every now and then, it’s definitely not as stable for me as X11. However X11 wasn’t very smooth with my multi monitor setup, and Wayland improved the smoothness of my PC enormously, so the random issues every now and then are worth it
I’m fine with X. Which problems did you have?
It’s been some time, but the biggest pain point for me on X11 was 4k@144hz. Short of some xrandr tweaks I couldn’t manage to set, Wayland immediately worked perfectly.
I suspect I ran in to x11’s limit in that case.
My child will never see more than 8-bit color
I’m sorry to hear about your child’s condition. Hope they can find a cure for it soon, wish you all the best.
Give me server-side decorations, or give me death!
(won’t add the whole of GTK as a dependency, so that my input handling can be handed over to whatever is GTK doing.)
rstudio and octave is holding me back T_T
they should just work under wayland without supporting it. what’s the problem with them?
ngl i only made this comment hoping someone would provide a solution lmao
majority of the features does work but when it comes to plotting in octave, nothing shows up. last time i checked it was something to do with qt(something).
for rstudio i dont remember what problems i had but booting into x11 solved these issues.
I see. maybe they are trying to be wayland compatible but failing at it? I have written some relevant advice here: https://sh.itjust.works/comment/21809713
Problem with Wayland, is the liability of being to not able the use of some software, and not being able to foresee it.
X11 is also working well, and a lot of the “issues” people have with it is more about hearsay than real issues.
This is the reason why we have distro diversity: we can choose ! And laugh at innocent memes either way we feel about it
Correcto X11 just works for me, never had any issues, there is literally zero benefit for me swapping over.
Every time I am booted into a Wayland session, something doesn’t feel, look or work right which causes me pain and suffering through my OCD which i don’t have.
I’m planning on trying hyprland soon though because it can look very pretty so if I swap over to that then yes I’ll be a wayland pleb, but in that case there’s a real reason to me swapping… not just for zero benefit.
Are the Wayland devs going to rewrite my Awesome WM config and widgets to some equivalent window manager while preserving all the features I’ve implemented? If not why the fuck would I waste weeks of my time switching to a tool that does the exact same thing?
Funny, this is basically the exact thing I said about switching from Windows to Linux at one point. Of course not about Wayland and window managers, but about the customization I did and the need to port it over.
Those things couldn’t be more different. Or did you spend lots of time to make your Linux environment work exactly like your Windows did?
I have my environment set up exactly the way I want. Moving to Wayland you mean replicating all the keyboard shortcuts, all the scripting and automated actions and re-implementing all the custom widgets. Because they work the way I want them to work. From what I’ve checked Wayland doesn’t even have tools that can be extended as easily as my WM. I would have to use some less popular tools with little documentation or struggle writing things in C++. And if I did all this I would have a setup that works the exact same way but is on Wayland. What would I gain besides bragging rights?
Well that’s what I’m saying. I had Windows set up exactly like I like it. I disabled all telemetry, had custom hotkeys for everything, etc etc etc, everything worked exactly like I wanted.
There was just a little thing in the background that made it make sense to switch to Linux, Windows getting shittier, MS dropping support etc etc
In the end, of course it’s not exactly the same thing, but that’s what’s happening to x11 as well, it does get “shittier” (comparatively) as less development time is spent on it, it doesn’t get improved as much as Wayland, gets less support etc. So if you just use a scale of “good <> bad”, over time, x11 goes more towards bad and Wayland more towards good, same as Windows vs Linux.
And once there will be some things I want to do, that can’t be done on X11 but can be done on Wayland I will switch. For now there are no such things so switching is just a waste of time. It crazy how many people think everyone should be on Wayland only because it’s new. It’s the Labubu of software, really.
No, people have different needs. By all means, stay on x11. Just don’t pretend Wayland is a fad that’s going away in a couple years or that a re-architectured window manager for the 21st century has no value.
Well you are the maintainer of your WM config so it’s on you not the Devs of Wayland to migrate you.
And why would I do that? What am I going to gain exactly?
Maintained software.
So a badge of honor. Thanks, not interested.
I will happily switch over once libinput isn’t absolute ass with my touchpad! Or if I could adjust its settings in any meaningful way!! Or if you could let me use my old touchpad driver!!!
Until then you can attempt to pry x11 from my cold undead still-animated hands
Plasma devs are currently focusing on input devices. Ideal time to offer them to help test your device and get amazing support out of it.
Or you could sit on your ass and do nothing, which is essentially gambling that they’ll happen to support it (or your next device) when you’re forced to switch at some point in the future.
I just can’t give up dwm tbh. dwl is just a mess in terms of using it with a different keyboard layout (the keybinds that come by default work properly only on US keyboards) and needing to use fcitx (fcitx only worked on LibreWolf and nothing else, even after I tried using patches for this).
When Debian Trixie with GNOME started with Wayland by default, I switched too. It’s not bad I guess.
Meanwhile I’m here on Wayland because it does things that x11 doesn’t.
Like wreck the playability of your games? ;)
You must use a different Wayland than I do.
I play competitive multiplayer games with VRR on a 4k240 monitor in a tiling wm with direct scanout. Color management support (HDR, 10bit, anything beyond 8bit sRGB) is also coming along.
I’ve never had a better working setup than this. Everything on X was painful. Even just getting vsync to work properly used to be tricky in some cases.
I agree that wayland does miss features compared to X but a lot of them are conscious design decisions and don’t affect me personally. For example running graphical applications remotely through e.g. SSH or the complete lack of security allowing any application to easily read my keyboard input.
It actually does wreck the playability of games for me by disabling the ctrl and shift key. A known issue no one has bothered to look into. I cant complain tho, theyre working their butts off for free
if variable high refresh rate on my game monitor while discord and YouTube run at 60hz on the other wrecks playability, then definitely
I’m not one of those people who loves tearing though, so its good enough for me
If by “WRECK” you mean “improve” yes.
Xorg never worked quite right for me with multiple displays of different resolutions, orientations and refresh rates. Even after extensive setup, I would get screen tearing effects all the time. In wayland, everything just works OOTB for me.
I set TearFree in the mesa driver settings (not sure if it’s amd only?) so there’s no tearing even without vsync, I have a small 50hz display and a 1080p 120hz without issues
I kinda like being able to watch a video on one screen and not having to make sure that there are no animations going on anywhere else or the video framerate drops like it’s 1996.
Weirdly this happens on my work laptop (x11) but not any other Linux machine I’ve used including all the Wayland ones. I assume it’s due to video drivers.
Might be worth looking into and reporting as a bug. I use wayland and very commonly watch a high quality video on one monitor and whole games on my other just fine.
