Stares in disbelief
Hugs htop
All week I’ve been sending these to my coworker, currently hip deep in AI propaganda, at the Microsoft Power Platform conference in Vegas.
Vibe coding or no, this is a massive QA failure.
Well, who’d ever think of testing that closing the app works. Some things you have to take for granted or you’ll never test anything meaningful.
Isn’t that the final step in the testing plan for every app though? The first step is always opening it.
A bug like this means literally nobody tested it at all on this build, or was so apathetic they didn’t file an obvious issue.
For people to test, you need management that is willing to invest in QA. But that incentive disappears for a corporation when there’s no free market of competitors who can poach your customers by making a better quality product or service.
The person who fiddles with the always on top option in this monstrosity of a compositor maybe?
If you are a company the size of Microsoft, you have more than enough resources to test absolutely everything.
Latest news is that Xbox Games Division had been required to aim for a 30% profit margin for the last several years.
Thats why everything sucks and blew up.
Thats a fucking insane baseline target.
Line for next quarter profit must go up, therefore, cut costs.
This is obvious self destructive in the long run, but that doesn’t matter, what matters is C Suite’s golden parachutes.
They used to have very comprehensive automated testing processes to exercise all sorts of things. Unfortunately, like many tech companies these days like Apple, Google, etc., they’re all punting QA as a concept because they just don’t care - what are you going to do, go use another oligopoly platform?
You will never have resources to “test absolutely everything”. It is ALWAYS about building out personas and deriving tests from those.
What this tells us is that one of two things happened:
- This was not tested at all
- The testing harness resets the environment after every check (e.g. “does process close when killed”) rather than involving a manual reset (i.e. “close and re-open task manager”)
The latter is a lot more common than you would think since it makes it much easier to automate these harnesses rather than having a human at a VM. But… this is what happens when you don’t step through the entire workflow.
Didn’t Microsoft fire their dedicated human testing team in about 2014?
Probably?
This is the kind of thing that a LOT of companies outsource. Mostly for ill.
Can’t fail QA if there is no QA.
… Basically nobody in software development has done QA in about 15 years, aside of basically the last ol timer server admin types, who are now being replaced with … whatever Microsoft is calling Tay or Cortana now.
There’s always a few who try, and then corporate beats that out of them because it slows down ‘productivity’, you can basically only resist this for more than a year, two tops, if you are literally the only person on the planet who knows how to do what you do.
… which is also was those same old timers tend to … seemingly intentionally not document anything usefully: job security.
That is the reality.
The problem isn’t “vibe coding” (anyone who has ever managed early career staff will be able to attest that… the bar is REAL fucking low). The problem is a complete lack of testing or any sort of “investment” in caring if production breaks.
A lot of it is general apathy induced by… gestures around. But it very much goes beyond just the obnoxious rise in brain drains over “vibe coding”. Personally speaking, I am THIS fucking close to driving over to my company’s head of IT’s house and burning it down with him in it (For legal purposes, this is a joke) as that entire team continues to think “We’ll just wait until people tell us what is broken” is at all fucking acceptable.
But pretty much any SDLC is going to be built around code review. And code review is how you handle developers of different skill and sanity levels. Whether they are old hats who have been in the basement since before you were born, youngins who can’t stop talking about Rust, or chatbots.
Unfortunately a lot of people are trying to outside code review to LLMs as well. Also, LLM generated code is more likely to have subtle errors that a human would be very unlikely to make in otherwise mundane code. Errors that are easy to gloss over if you don’t take a magnifying glass to it. My current least favorite thing is LLM generated unit tests that don’t actually test what they say they do.
Shit code review is not code review. If you just rubber stamp everything or outsource it to someone who will, you aren’t doing code review.
Aside from that:
LLM generated code is more likely to have subtle errors that a human would be very unlikely to make in otherwise mundane code.
Citation requested
My current least favorite thing is LLM generated unit tests that don’t actually test what they say they do.
If I had a nickle for every single time I had to explain to someone that their unit test doesn’t do anything or that they literally just copied the output and checked against it (and that they are dealing with floating points so that is actually really stupid)… I’d probably go buy some Five Guys for lunch.
Its like saying that the problem is that you are using robots to assemble cybertrucks rather than people. The problem isn’t who is super glueing sharp jagged metal together. The problem is that your product is fundamentally shite and should never have reached production in the first place. And you need to REALLY work through your design flows and so forth.
Citation requested
I keep seeing it over and over again. Anyone that actually has to deal with coworkers using this bullshit that isn’t also in the cult is going to recognize it.
If I had a nickle for every singl yada yada yada
Sure, there have always been better and worse developers. LLMs are making developers that used to be better, worse.
Bad developers just do whatever. It doesn’t matter if they wrote the code themselves or if a tool wrote it for them. They aren’t going to be more or less detail oriented whether it is an LLM, a doxygen plugin, or their own fingers that made the code.
Which is the problem when people make claims like that. It is nonsense and anyone who has ACTUALLY worked with early career staff can tell you… those kids aren’t writing much better code than chatgpt and there is a reason so many of them have embraced it.
But it also fundamentally changes the conversation. It stops being “We should heavily limit the use of generative AI in coding because it prevents people from developing the skills they need to evaluate code” and instead “We need generative AI to be better”.
It was the exact same thing with “AI can’t draw hands”. Everyone and their mother insisted on that. Most people never thought about why basically all cartoons are four fingered hands and so forth. So, when the “studio ghibli filter” was made? It took off like hotcakes because “Now AI can can do hands!” and there was no thought towards the actual implications of generative AI.
Nothing outside of the first paragraph here is terribly meaningful, and the first paragraph is just trying to talk past what I said before. I’ll reiterate, very clearly.
I have observed several of my coworkers that used to be really good at their jobs, get worse at their jobs (and make me spend more ensuring code quality) since they started using using LLM tools. That’s it. That’s all I care about. Maybe they’ll get better. Maybe they won’t. But right now I’d strongly prefer people not use them, because people using them has made my experience worse.
And automatic test systems. It’s not that hard.
I have seen at least 1 out of every 5 comments from coderabbitai that lead me down a rabbit hole looking to see if the suggestion is correct. It can waste so much time trying to validate their suggestions only to find out it’s complete BS.
The public, aka Microsoft QA Team, found the bug. It’s a QA success!
You think the QA was done by a person? I’ll bet this was Vibe QA’d.
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They’re ruining LinkedIn and GitHub as well.
No way… Are you serious?
I’m not sure it was possible to ruin something like LinkedIn …
Last issue I had with Windows was that I couldn’t update because my EFI partition was too small (the partition is created automatically on install). Why do I never get the funny ones?
Oh no, Windows 10 won’t get updates from their vibe coding era!
…hail Hydra?
I was recently pulling my hair out because a recent update caused a bug in the Windows recovery media creator that prevented the Windows RE from recognizing USB input devices. The few weeks between the faulty update and the fix just happened to coincide with me needing to use it.
WTF are they doing messing with something as basic as the Recovery Environment? And further, in a way that breaks its utility entirely?
Captive audience on the contracts side, so they can do whatever they want as crappy as they want and the contracts still generate revenue.
You wanted a usable product? Stay away from Big Tech anymore.
And no regression tests that caught it
They probably don’t even test
They vibed their way out of the tests
they ask copilot if the code works
Will windows run ok? Yes? Good.
Marketing discovered AI can code (terribly).
I don’t think I could go back to Windows 10 permanently to do any non-web based work. I couldn’t even touch Windows 11. It’s so disgusting compared to my KDE plasma desktop on OST.
KDE apps work on windows generally so that’s nice.
I am more scared of powershell, it has OOP.
KDE Plasma on Ubuntu is a dream!!!
Try Kubuntu.
Is that not Kubuntu?
KDE Plasma + Ubuntu = Kubuntu?
For what it’s worth Windows 10 is/was perfectly usable after setting it up properly. A bit of customization needed but nothing crazy. Honestly I liked the OS and its design, it felt very clean and utility oriented.
I’ve set up a new Windows 11 install from scratch this past month and it has been a real pulling teeth experience. It’s not completely unfixable (yet) but even the annoyances that are not sinister are perplexing. There’s a new context menu that has a cut down layout and takes a few milliseconds to load - I get the design decision to keep it short and have a button for when more options are needed, but it lags - I’m out. Just a little hidden config to skip to the full (more cluttered but no lag) menu (which you could always access by holding shift, but this is to skip to it every timeline). There’s a few dozen little annoyances like that. A few are bigger than others, like the need to drive Copilot out to the desert and double tap it in the head unceremoniously. They’ve put it in Paint. They’ve put it in fucking Notepad.
That’s not even getting into how desperately they want every year signing away the rights their your bone marrow to the Microsoft Corporation. The computer I’ve set up is more or less where I want it to be, but I’m wary of things breaking with an update.
I’m not big on quotes but I’ve been coming back to Ed Zitron’s words a lot lately:
I will never forgive these people for what they’ve done to the computer.
I find it funny how the tables turned. Used to be that Linux was the one that needed setup and Windows was the one that just worked. I don’t think any Linux image I’ve used didn’t just drop me into a desktop environment no questions asked upon boot and that’s a world away from the awful, awful new Windows experience. Unless Microsoft conspires to make the next decade of Linux hardware drivers absolutely abhorrent I think this will have to be my last Windows machine. That or the entire executive suite of Microsoft’s OS division has an epiphany about not wanting to spend eternity in hell.
For all the Just Use Linux people: I’ve got more machines running Linux in my house than Windows. I’ll get there, Microsoft is just doing everything they can to push everyone off their OS.
What is OST? Sorry, I’m just interested because I’m getting tired of Arch but I still KDE plasma 6
TIRED OF ARCH!?!??!!!
Cachy or Endeavor are a nice step back from Arch while keeping things familiar. For even more stability without sacrificing your ability to fiddle, there is always Fedora.
+1 for Fedora. I’ve been using the same installation for 3 years. That’s multiple dirty upgrades. The only reason I’ll be most likely reinstalling is I got a new SSD and it’s a nice opportunity to start fresh.
I just finished my 42nd Fedora upgrade. I’m not counting multiple machines, just the number of releases where I’ve done an upgrade.
OpenSUSE Tumbleweed
Sorta related, i found a copilot pull request (merged) on an npm project repo and I was so disgusted I wanted to delete the dependency and do my own thing manually, but alas this was at work and my time on this earth is finite (for now)
(I just wanted to share this)
my time on this earth is finite (for now)
Let me know when you get that immortality hack working!
You are the first I will call :)
The usage of vibe coding tools in the NPM repo has only led to two major incidents (supply chain attacks) in the last months
Tbf this is why PRs and code reviews exist.
Agree, but if we are going towards the AI writes all code future that these AI companies want, then code review will become inneffective.
If we stop writing code, we will lose that “edge” that helps us detect bad logic when reading a PR.
The more code we have to review, the more mistakes we will make letting bad code through (I believe this is the case). It’s less fatal when the code we review is written by smart humans because it’s unlikely they code something as bad as an AI can produce.
Anyways, I think using any AI agent to write bigish blobs of code is a mistake, but if you are gonna do it i hope you have multiple fresh pairs of eyes on each PR. Still will give me the ick seeing an AI PR get merged tho.
I think it was reviewed and comitted by AI or something
Oh interesting, I thought they were all phishing attacks… goes to show the risk I guess.
I’ve never noticed this. Mostly because I basically never close Task Manager. Because programs hanging is common enough that it’s actually useful to have Task Manager open on a separate screen.
On an unrelated note, I must set myself a reminder for tomorrow to give installing Linux another go…
I have mostly abandoned Win for many years (I only have gaming PC where I still have dual boot) Has it really gotten that bad? Every time I boot up Win I am shocked how long this clean PC with only Games installed and high end hardware takes to get ready. But at least it does its job.
On Linux (Kubuntu in my case) I haven’t had an issue with hanging software in a long time. Even browsers have become completely stable.
Every Windows machine I’ve ever had just gets slower and slower over time. It takes several years, but after 2-3 years it’s taking ages to do basic tasks. I’m just kind of tired of it at this point.
It’s incredible how quick they become when converted to Linux (though I always put light weight Linuxes on old machines, and that may have contributed)
From what I saw about this bug, it’s not just that it duplicates the window when closed. You had to have typed “X” into it first and then closing it would cause the duplication behavior.
