I mean, if whole EU countries can do it, so can you.
OK, really good article and I like Libreoffice (although I prefer Only office) and Linux. I browse on it, game, watch videos, do pretty much everything. I am also a technical person, who can create a VM in 10 mins, add a required boot parameter, etc.
Now. I want to send this article to my colleague/friend who’s not technical at all. In the blog post I read
Start by testing Linux and LibreOffice on a second partition of your PC (for individuals)
“Second partition” literally means nothing to most people. I know: just learn, just read. But most people will not bother, or they will simply not understand the tutorials. That’s the unfortunate reality.
I think Linux and Libreoffice can become mainstream if a regular Joe/Jane can buy a laptop from Walmart with a distro and office apps pre-installed and use them like Microsoft Office. Before that time all this Linux and FLOSS stuff is limited to technical, or at least curious people willing to put some effort.
P.S. My relatives are on Linux and Onlyoffice, because I installed it for them. And it’s so much easier and more rare for me to manage and troubleshoot than Windows. But I cannot see them installing it by themselves.
Yeah I’ve been considering switching to Linux but I’m not a tech person. I know enough to play some games and install some Minecraft mods and that’s it. Since I was thinking about getting a new lightweight laptop I was gonna get one with Linux instead of windows to give it a try but every time I found one that said Linux I’d look at the specs and it says the operating system is actually windows. I’d be willing to learn how to get Linux myself but I’m worried about ruining my computer because I don’t understand even half of the technical stuff. If anyone has any up to date very beginner friendly guides, I’d appreciate the recommendation
If you are willing to learn, then you can check Linux laptops from Framework, Tuxedo and Entroware. Linux preinstalled, and hardware is compatible.
Thanks! I’ll check those out!
I’ve been a full time dev since 2012 and needed a Mac, I had barely used windows over that time but beforehand ran a PC service business.
Anyway, Ive been using Linux as a daily driver for the past 6 months for reasons.
… The other day I got a new cheap laptop I needed to setup for run a single application.
Holy fuck what a shitshow.
It took me 2 hours just to get to the desktop. Shit didn’t work, bullshit login screens, ads everywhere.
It was a massive pile of dog shit.
After battling to get the system setup for the rest of the day I gave up, chucked Fedora Kinoite On it… Took 30 minutes from creating boot media to getting a desktop going, chucked the app I needed to run in a Flatpack, chucked it on a USB, and it was up and running.
No bullshit.
Just works.
Truly the year of the Linux desktop.
I’m guessing the cheap laptop was running Windows? You didn’t mention, it sounds at first like you’re saying you were using Linux on it.
What ads were everywhere? Why did it “take 2 hours to get to the desktop” - you mean, that’s how long it took to install or something?
People here so full of shit. I just reimaged my lenovo t570 with windows 11 took less then 10mins to install. Another 5 to remove all the bs built in software like solitaire Cortana etc and then another 10-15 to apply all windows updates. Bam done.
Yeah, sure. But I don’t run a shop anymore and just picked up an off the shelf machine from a retailer.
Turned it on, connected it to wifi, then it took forever to try and update itself, which failed, required another reboot, then made me sign in, which also failed, needed a reboot
I dont want a fucking ms account, I don’t want to wait for every update, just ask my name and take me to the desktop
Sounds like a personal skill issue. Especially if you bought some crappy off the shelf laptop.
Also you dont need any of that to use windows so again pushing false narrative since you can use windows with an offline account perfectly fine. Since I use mine for school and dont sign into Microsoft.
In the end I popped up the terminal and used some pot command with some flag I can’t remember to skip the login step on setup.
I reckon there is good chance you aren’t using windows 11 home though right?
Takes a lot more to fully deshittify it, though. I’ve been down that road. So much registry diving, so many third party apps, strongarming uninstallations of bloatware through brute force, and just all around weeks of work.
When the screenshot shit was announced the first time, I just got tired of looking for workarounds to disable or remove Microsoft’s active attempts of policing, spying, and triple-dip profiting off it’s paying customers.
Install the IoT version, that comes without any of the bloat and works just fine. Not even the Microsoft store is bundled in.
I have heard about the IoT version. I’d have to look more into it, but I doubt I’m going back now that I’ve learned so much about Linux. I can troubleshoot most of Arch without touching the docs or asking online now, so it really defeats the purpose of switching back.
I also enjoy putting in a little effort to get things working. That’s the thing about Linux. Most people that daily drive it get a dopamine release from tinkering with it and fixing things, and I’m one of those people.
I know there has been a big “its for everyone” push these days, but its really not. So I’m glad the IoT version exists for those that want or need it.
Yeah Linux is great, no doubt. I’ve been using Xubuntu since forever, never really touched Arch, but fundamentally if you know your way around one system, you’ll manage another.
Still, there are a bunch of applications that I must run under Windows, so it’s good to have the no frills version available for that.
Where does one purchase a single license for windows 10 iot lts? Isn’t that only for volume purchases by large enterprises?
Yeah, I’m not sure why anybody is mentioning Windows IoT. When you lookup where to buy this, Microsoft themselves tell you to call or email a salesman; it’s an enterprise-only thing. Recommending this for individuals is misguided.
You can even skip step 2 by using one of the IoT editions (either Win10 or Win11) which come minus the prepackaged bloatware.
Microsoft is mostly interested in making everything bullshit for home users. If you convince them you’re an enterprise customer, preferably by running up the old Jolly Roger, suddenly your life is a lot easier.
Sorry answered it elsewhere, yep windows 11.
The forced update took forever and failed and then it also fucked out with the Microsoft account. It was legit 2 hours from boot to seeing a desktop. I wanted to skip the updates and the Microsoft account.
The start menu is full of ads for software I don’t want. If I buy software off you, stop trying to upsell me.
Bruh…I’m still running windows 7 in one of my VMs hosted by Debian 😏😏😏
What?! I’m still working on my spreadsheet comparing 7 and 8!
I might be a little behind on Windows releases, because this is the first time I’ve heard of a version 40320
I always find it odd that posts like this get any downvotes at all. Like, are people really that in love with Windows and or Microsoft?
It’s because we’ve seen this post 1000 times
and yet you persist. why?
(sorry, this is totally a troll)
It’s because LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX
GNU! GNU!
Because mass recommending Linux to people with absolutely no nuance whatsoever is exactly why Linux users are seen as obnoxious and annoying. Not only does the website make no attempt to properly explain Linux it doesn’t clearly outline its usecase. Its the very definition of the Linux user stereotype, blasted right in front of your face, reposted everywhere, and with a simple INSTALL LINUX and EVEYONE CAN INSTALL LINUX.
The first paragraphs on https://endof10.org/ tell you why you should install Linux followed by telling you how to get in touch with someone who can explain things to you and even install it for you. Most of them do it free of charge. I’m not sure how you can improve on that.
Because theyre eithet vauge, blatant lies, or not something people care about:
No New Hardware, No Licensing Costs
Most people are willing to buy new hardware, and nobody pays for a Windows key tbh. Even if they did it would be a free upgrade from 10 to 11. Also the terminology is very enterprise focused and objectively some distros (ex REHL) are paid.
Enhanced Privacy
Once again not something people strictly care about. In addition if you use Linux exactly like Windows with Chrome, Whatsapp, Discord and other non privacy respecting apps you’re not improving your privacy by much.
Good For The Planet
The implication that carbon emissions is something an individual can do something about has been objectively disproven. For any meaningful change you need societal change from the top (especially corporations and rich people).
Community & Professional Support
Online Linux forums and chats especially for new people can be extremely overwhelming. Especially when a Windows user comes in and asks why something isnt exactly like Windows. Also once again movements like this is why people dont like the Linux community.
Better User Control
Most new Linux users not only wont use them but especially in KDE software will actively be overwhelmed by the amount of options and menus. Additionally what this critically leaves out is the fact that more advanced customization requires more skill and experience the more advanced it is. There is a clear skill difference from installing a widget in KDE Plasma to compling and installing a custom kernel.
Now lets talk about the things they should have mentioned:
- Less commercial software: adobe especially but most professional grade editing software for both video and photo does not support Linux (yes I know Davinchi resolve technically does but the Linux version is so awful you might as well not use it)
- Linux is not Windows or MacOS: Linux does its own thing, sometimes this is good sometimes bad sometimes its highly debatable (and Linux users will debate it). Because of that if you expect to use Linux exactly like Windows you’ll get confused and frustrated.
- Package managers: Almost every major DE has a graphical package manager frontend, this is a good thing and should be talked about.
- Desktop Environments: Show what they look like, KDE Plasma and Gnome. It should be explained their differnces and who they’re made for.
- Distros: Explain a few of the most common distros and who they’re made for. Debian is the most stable but gets few updates, OpenSuse tumbleweed is bleeding edge, Fedora gets updates once every few months, Arch is unstable and not reccomended for beginners, Pop_OS is great for gaming (see ProtonDB for compatibility)
Most people are willing to buy new hardware, and nobody pays for a Windows key tbh.
Many people are also not willing to buy new hardware. I have several friends where each PC purchase is a massive hit on their budget that requires other things to be sacrificed. And one does pay for a Windows key every time they buy a Windows PC. SIs who sell PCs with Windows as optional offer the Linux PCs for cheaper since you don’t have to pay the Windows license fee.
Even if they did it would be a free upgrade from 10 to 11.
Depends on the PC, some of them just will not go to 11, in which case you are talking about spending hundreds of dollars to go from Win 10 to Win 11, but $0 to go from Win 10 to Linux.
Enhanced Privacy
Once again not something people strictly care about.
Privacy is exactly what got me and one of my other friends to switch. Many, many people don’t like being spied on. And taking reasonable steps to reduce it is very much so within our control.
The implication that carbon emissions is something an individual can do something about has been objectively disproven.
Not buying something new and using what you have demonstrably helps. There is no world in which throwing away a perfectly good PC just to manufacture and transport another is somehow better for carbon emissions. Microsoft should not be rewarded for creating so much unnecessary ewaste by encouraging people to go out and buy another Windows PC.
You can also just stay on Windows 10 and get 3rd party security updates. That is a legitimate option that for a lot of people is going to be their best choice.
I imagine the downvotes are backlash against all the people who convince themselves that Linux is the only viable solution regardless of use case or workflow. There are definitely loads of people in the Linux community and the open source community in general who will pick a piece of software and proselytize it with no consideration whatsoever whether it fits someone’s actual needs. Like, personally, I like Linux but there are things I need to do that require me to have Windows. For some people this fact is absolutely unacceptable and they simply won’t hear it.
What can’t you do on Linux that keeps you on Windows or Mac?
- Voicemeeter and Virtual Audio Cables for separate audio channels with separate volume controls, macro keys, and easily adjustable toggling between outputs (more easily adjustable and less latency than JACK)
- Eartrumpet for easy and immediate per-program control over audio channels
- FL Studio
- Adobe Premiere
- MX Ergo drivers that have full functionality including remapping and holding down mouse 4 and mouse 5 and toggleable precision mode with LED indicator
- No sudden troubleshooting mid-way through working on projects to break my flow
- A Windows testing environment
- 100% compatibility with every game I own
There may be a few more, but these are the big ones. JACK, at the moment, just isn’t a replacement for Voicemeeter and while there are some DAWs for Linux, they’re not FL and I don’t know if they’re compatible with Guitar Rig. I’ve used OpenShot for video as well, and while it’s not terrible it isn’t really comparable.
I’m sure that Linux is a good fit for many users. Personally, as an operating system alone if it weren’t for these issues, I’d prefer it. I’d love to be able to do what I need to do and also have a plasma, it’s much nicer. But at the moment it isn’t a real option without sacrificing things that I actually need. I also really can’t be dealing with suddenly needing to sort out how to make a finicky program work at the drop of a hat when I’m in the middle of working on a project.
I’ve been dabbling with Linux since the early 00s. I like it and I wish it were a substitute for Windows for my use case, but it isn’t. No amount of people being rude and obtuse in threads will change that. Time might, but it hasn’t yet.
Ah I see. Pipewire has made audio production a lot easier with far fewer latency issues. I know the FL Studio crowd is pretty diehard, but if you’re ever feeling adventurous there’s a lot more in the audio space now. I personally use Reaper to record my guitar through my Audient interface and have no issues. I’m not much of a beats and loops guy though so YMMV.
Does it have separate audio channels and input/output controls with volume sliders and hotkeys? That would still leave a few other issues, but progress is progress and I do like to keep myself aware of the options so that I’ll know when it finally ticks all the boxes.
I use pipewire with Ardour and Neural DSP VSTs (over wine) with zero issues on EndeavourOS. I really hadn’t expected that. Now, I generally just use this stuff to not have to buy many physical pedals so I rarely do recording, but that has worked as well.
You seem to be way more advanced than me in that regard, so I can’t say if it would work for you, but it was so much easier and better than when I tried the same thing years ago. I’d suspect that GuitarRig works as well, though I haven’t tried. I may just do so this weekend, but can’t promise.
I have GuitarPro running with wine as well.
I’m not sure I understand the question. Pipewire is the audio server, replacing Pulse. It does have frontends that allow routing from different devices, channels, software etc and distributions that are using Pipewire now have interface elements that allow you to control application use of audio devices. I’m not sure I answered your question at all lol.
photoshop, multiplayer games, excel specific macros, 99% of the accounting programs, drivers wificard soundcards, multimonitor support that doesnt shits itself within 10 seconds…2 years ago i tried mint, ubuntu, manjaro, they all failed.
2 years is a long time. Driver issues are few and far between these days. Multi monitor support has greatly improved as well. I can’t help you with your software requirements if you’re stuck using proprietary programs like Photoshop. I can tell you that as a professional graphic designer and illustrator the alternatives to “industry standard” software are powerful and arguably better (Inkscape) on the Linux side. It does take time and effort to retrain years of shortcuts and workflow experience, but it’s definitely doable.
Maybe one day when you’re feeling adventurous give Linux another shot. I know for a lot of people the ethics of open source vs closed aren’t really important, but it’s still fun to see what else is out there.
i see now. you just love to be downvoted.
Why? I thought it was a pretty reasonable reply.
I downvoted it.
For starters I’ve seen this exact post a few times over the past 3 months in this community.
Secondly, the comments go exactly the same in these threads:
- “linux can do everything, no faults at all, windows sucks”
- “but I use windows for x and y and linux can’t do it”
- “how dare you insult linux, you should not be doing x and y, just do it with this app (which is completely inferior)”
Next, windows does everything I want it to do, I disabled and uninstalled everything I didn’t want easily through settings & group policy, and it hasn’t bothered me since.
It’s getting downvoted because it’s not realistic.
I thought so too, largely on the basis of some very bad experiences with ubuntu-based distributions (they seem to hate my bog-standard RTX3060 GPU for whatever reason), but in frustration I tried one last time to install a linux distro and went with something based on fedora and it has 95% just worked, it’s been great. I haven’t booted up windows in almost 3 weeks, all my games work (battle.net was a bit of a pain to get working), the proprietary windows software I use for work runs great in wine, etc. I’m at the point now where I’m transferring all my files off of NTFS partitions and reformatting them to btrfs and integrating them into the linux filesystem, cause I’m done with windows forever to the greatest possible extent that I can be.
Nvidia Linux drivers are still kinda iffy these days but so are the Windows ones too
It was definitely a Ubuntu thing - Pop, 2 version of Ubuntu, and Mint all failed at various points when dealing with GPU drivers, but I’m using closed-source nvidia drivers on the same GPU in Nobara (Fedora) without issue. Though I guess I haven’t tried updating it yet, but all my hardware accelerated games work as they should.
I am greatful that Ubuntu ended up bringing the Linux desktop into the general publics eye, but at the same time out of all of the popular distro’s today, I firmly believe there is always a better choice than Ubuntu for any user, new or veteran. It’s just a pity that they are the most well known to people who aren’t familiar with Linux while not being good at anything, although basically any Linux distro feels like fresh air when compared to the Microsoft experience.
Why is that? What’s the problem with ubuntu? I mean ubuntu-based distros seem to hate my bog-standard RTX3060 GPU for some reason, but besides that. I’m pretty happy with nobara tho, and wouldn’t switch back to ubuntu even if I knew it’d work with my GPU.
my main gripe with Ubuntu right now is the way they are forcing snaps into my system under the covers. if i wanted to install a snap, i would be using
snap installinstead ofapt install. forcing a snap install when i use apt install is just total fuckery. fortunately i only have to use ubuntu at work; home is fedora and almaHm, yeah that is definitely a weird thing to do, I’m using nobara (fedora) and it has the app center for snap and flatpost for flatpaks plus dnf for the package manager.
You just hit both of my points,
- Newer hardware has compatibility issues due to Ubuntu’s slower update cycle
2.ubuntu doesn’t do anything particularly better than any other distro, the marketing pitch normally ends up being “we’re Linux, and we’ve done it a while” because there isn’t any feature that makes it stand out so they advertise on their stability which isn’t that much more pronounced in comparison to a fedora or debian based distro.
What’s the problem with ubuntu?
In general I wouldn’t say it has a problem, it does what it says it will do, it’s just that it’s distinct features are quickly becoming the standard or obsolete.
Fair enough. Personally my hardware isn’t that new; the GPU is 3-4 years old at this point, the rest of the PC is ~5 years old so you would think even the latest LTS which is only a year or two old would support it. shrug
But yeah I’m liking nobara’s rapid update cycle so far, though I haven’t tried to change GPU drivers with it yet, so I suppose I will reserve a tiny amount of judgement until I have to do that. ;)
Agreed. New users often either go Ubuntu or Linux Mint because they’re well known, but really aren’t the best options out there anymore.
Because the people that would or can switch would already switch after it’s been posted for the 1000th time. It’s not realistic because the vast majority of people simply don’t care. People hate windows updates enough as it is, to most average people this is good news.
Not caring is why these corporations have the power they do.
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Perhaps if you ran Linux you’d be less crankyyyyy
later edit : I hope this message was interpreted for the tongue in cheek that it was
deleted by creator
That’s not the flex you think it is.
Your preoccupation with image here hurts you more than it helps you.
deleted by creator
Not that I have a strong opinion one way or the other but Linux people’s lack of self awareness or discretion has hurt its spread more than Microsoft has.
Having a teensyweensy bit of occupation with image goes a really long way
Honestly yes, this entire campaign is absolutely stupid.
Putting Bill Gates’ dick in my mouth is far too high of a licensing fee. I’ll just play Oregon Trail on an Apple IIe instead. But no judgment. You live your best life.
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I’ve had windows update disabled for years so the fact that it’s “end of life” don’t mean shit to me. It’ll keep chugging along for years more.
That said, I installed Mint a week ago and love it!
EOL means no more security updates, which means attack vectors don’t get patched.
If you keep using a Windows installation (or any OS for that matter) that isn’t patched regularly you are very likely to be victim to some malicious actor eventually. It’s not manual hacking anymore, it’s bots scraping the whole internet exploiting known vulnerabilities completely automated.
The risk is much lower if you’re in a home network with NAT, where your PCs IP is not publicly reachable, but if you communicate with any webservices you’re still vulnerable.
As example. If you nowadays put a Windows XP machine live on the internet with a public IP, it will be compromised within minutes.
So yeah. Good call switching to Mint, but please don’t use unpatched Windows.
Nat is not a security feature.
Just use ipv6
If you’re behind a conventional router they still do NAT afaik.
Per default your IPv6 address should be an internal one if it’s enabled.
My third world country gives us normal IPv6 addresses that can be accessed from the web if you configure the router xd
This is what 0patch is for!
I saw a YT video about XP being compromised. It was literally about 2-3 minutes, and it had been attacked.
Yeah, we managed to recreate that in a lab. Those old OS’s are super vulnerable.
Mint was my first Linux OS, and it’s been really nice.
Not my first, but the one I landed on after years. It’s just so good.
The end of windows 10 support is approaching. Windows 10 will go on for a while yet.
Yeah but my W10 shoved a giant full screen ad telling me to get rid of my PC and get a new one with W11 twice. Support might be ending but if it constantly nags you to upgrade, that’s just BS.
Can’t wait for the “The end of Windows 11 is approaching…” article in a few years. Keep me posted.
Windows 12, with AI even moreso integrated.
Nah, there’ll be a new boogeyman by then.
I got a cheap mini pc. It had W11 on it which I promptly broke (I think it was when it insisted on me putting in a PIN but I closed the window). It also ran at 100% for no reason trying to do updates, but then refused to do any updates.
So I put the latest Ubuntu Linux on it. Seems OK, but I can’t get anything to recognise the video codex stuff in the N150 CPU. It seems to know it’s there, but Firefox and MPV won’t use it…
You need to install the codecs, there’s a way to do it on ubuntu, just google search it (and there’s an option during installation to do it too). The N150 cpu and its integrated gpu is not a problem for your codec problem, it’s a matter of installing the right software.
Yeah, I thought I’d ticked something similar during setup, but maybe it wasn’t for that. I installed them and it hasn’t really changed anything in either mpv or Firefox.
The compositing in Firefox is webrender (software) and appears to be using llvmpipe as the GPU. There’s a 2nd “GPU” listed, but doesn’t seem to use it All the codecs say hardware is disabled…
Installed VLC and that seems to use the hardware renderer. MPV and Firefox are both installed with Snap. I’m seeing a pattern that might not be there, but I’m already hating Snap. This is day two of my rebooted Linux experience…
Yeah, snaps won’t be able to access the “external” codecs (outside their jail). So either install the official firefox package from the firefox site, or chrome.
I know when you install Mint there is a ‘install codecs’ checkbox during the installer, not sure if the same exists for Ubuntu.
For Ubuntu, you could try this and see if it solves your problem.
Yeah, tried all that, and not having much luck in Firefox and MPV. VLC fine. Replied to the other post, and it might be Snap blocking it. I dunno though, because I know basically fuck all about snap other than a lot of Linux people don’t like it.
O, yeah. Snaps basically live in their own little system. Anything you do to your wider system, like installing codecs, will not affect a snap. Easiest solution is to remove the snap VLC and install normal VLC. Same for Firefox and MPC.
I have heard nothing good about snaps and Canonical pushing them is a big reason you don’t see people recommending Ubuntu, and instead recommending things like Mint (me included).
Well, shit…
I went with Ubuntu because the N150 is fairly new (even if it’s just a slightly faster N100) and the 25.04 Ubuntu kernel supports it out of the box.
I wouldn’t worry about it too hard, there isn’t anything fundamentally wrong with Ubuntu. Both it and mint are in the same family after all.
Sounds like you should just keep Ubuntu and get the non-snap versions of the apps that need codecs.
Yeah, I removed Snap mpv and reinstalled with apt.
Lo and behold, it works perfectly all of a sudden.
Firefox looks like more effort, and apt will install the snap version. Even if you uninstall snap. Fun. If I could enable what is missing I’d be OK, but I’ve no idea what it is…
I just rage-downgraded back to 10 a couple days ago. is there any reason why I shouldn’t just keep using it after this year? are we ever going to see a risk for zero day exploits for it like happened for XP after it depreciated?
Just look up windows related cves. There’s like 10 new exploits almost every month or so. Sure, not all of them will be super critical, but as time goes on they will stack up. I would not want to risk it, but you do you.
Consider running the LTSC version. It gets extended support.
I’ve been migrating some of my clients (I do on site support for SMBs) to LTSC 2019, which gets updates until 2029. An added benefit is that it gets a lot less updates, essentially security updates, and comes with a lot less crap preinstalled.
ESU also offers one year of support for non-enterprise users for $30.
If one were to run Win10 Enterprise LTSC IoT, “activated”… would it continue to automatically receive updates?
Windows 10 doesn’t actually need to be activated to receive security updates. You’ll just deal with an annoying watermark in the bottom right all the time. IoT may be different, though.
Regardless, I recommend taking a look at this project: https://massgrave.dev/
I have to assume so since other versions that have been “activated” the same way do. Real big shout out to you-know-who, btw. They make Microsoft software viable at all.
is there any reason why I shouldn’t just keep using it after this year?
You mean aside from all the reasons not to use Windows that applied even before deprecation? 'Cause there are a fuck-ton of those.
Unironically, yes. I was already aware of those and take them into account
GF recently wanted to buy Ms office because she had a nice looking CV template for it that would not work well in LibreOffice. So I spent some hours making a good one without Ms crap, just so they would not get anymore money.
Pretty sure the template would work fine with OnlyOffice.
I just rebuilt mine and can confirm that most of those resume template builders utilize a lot of word doc “hacks” to format everything, and loading and LibreOffice breaks it.
Even in Word, some of those templates behaves weirdly.
Also 0patch, which will continue to provide security patches for Windows 10 indefinitely.
I don’t understand how can critical buisness machines which work perfectly fine be switched to windows 11?
We have a machine at work which is beefy and works as a server and backups for many many years on windows 10. Why the hell should I upgrade my buisness critical system ?? Why would I take my risk breaking stuff. I am sure there are millions of critical systems running gon windows 10 which should not be distribed at any means, what would Microsoft do about them.
Your business critical system will no longer be supported with security updates which will leave it vulnerable to attack.
I guess, if it’s not connected to any sort of outside network, and has no way of accepting data from media like discs or thumb drives then it’s perfectly safe, but if that’s the case, and it works in isolation, how “business critical” is it?
You would be amazed in the industrial world. There are tons of large and incredibly expensive special purpose machines that are operated by super antiquated PC architecture computers running geriatric operating systems, sometimes still even DOS or Windows 3.x.
Think industrial CNC mills and lathes, presses, pick-and-place machines, specialty lab testing equipment, electron microscopes, etc.
Process control, i.e. production line automation, is usually driven by dedicated PLCs. But the user interfaces connected to them are almost invariantly some old ruggedized panel mounted PC running Windows. An absurd number of them in my experience are still on 2000 or XP. NT4 is pretty easy to find, too.
Granted often these are not networked, and in cases where they are they’re not connected to the internet, or may even talk to other workstations via RS-485 serial (!) or some other gimcrack method that is unlikely to be a vector for modern malware.
Critically, the people who build these machines don’t typically update drivers to port them to a new OS. You buy a piece of heavy equipment, investing tens, or maybe even a hundred thousand dollars, and there’s an OS it works on, maybe two if you’re lucky. The equipment hopefully works for at least 20 years, and basically no OS is going to maintain that kind of compatibility for that long. Linux might get the closest, but I’ll bet you’re compiling/patching your own kernels before 20 years is up.
This kind of dynamic is unavoidable when equipment vendors sell equipment which has a long usable life (which is good), and don’t invest in software support (which is them being cheap, to an extent), and OSes change enough that these time horizons likely involve compatibility-breaking releases.
As long as they aren’t networked, there’s no problem there!
Hahahahahaha, I still periodically see win2k/2k3 on the network at some clients, with SMBv1 enabled across the domain to make the CISO’s eye twitch
back in 2017, the company I worked at had a win 2K server. Crazy shit. It was for a critical system (ran the phone system)
Fucking phone systems! That’s what these are, and we have to snap them any time they’re rebooted because sometimes they just shut the bed randomly, but the client doesn’t want to buy a new system…
But, it’s their wallet and they’re willing to pay the “fuck you pay me” legacy surcharge.
If you are running business critical applications on Windows 10 that is a problem. Windows 10 is only meant for end user machines. Other services should be running on OS’s that are meant for the application such as Windows Server or server versions of Linux distros running LTS kernels.
Not to mention, near every piece of software I’ve been involved with at work has required specific versions of Windows Server and whatever database it uses, if you want to upgrade the software you use, then upgrading the OS is part of the task.
For that use Windows 10 IOT LTSC
The obvious conclusion is that Windows 10 is not fit for purpose in your business environment and the person in charge of IT procurement dun goofed picking it in the first place.
I don’t know what kind of software that particular machine runs, but for server and backup Linux appears to be the go to tool. I’m not saying that you have to migrate everything to Linux. I just say that for servers and the like the transition is probably easier than for desktop.
Because either way you’re taking a risk.
Security flaws and aging hardware are two obvious problems.
I’d very much question why you’d use windows 10 over something better supported— maybe not Linux but at least Windows Server OS.
Their answer would probably be to run Windows Server 2022, which is supported until 2031.
The problem is that Microsoft is ending Win10 support so you won’t be able to get updates and such (especially security updates) for the OS anymore which will ultimately lead to things breaking or being vulnerable anyway, plus if that business-critical software ever gets updated to the point where it also doesn’t support win10 anymore (I’ve run into this in the past with XP/Vista) then you’re going to have to change anyway. But you don’t have to change to win11. Companies and governments all over Europe are switching their mission-critical systems to linux and FOSS, yeah it’s a pain, but it’s going to save you pain down the road.
What Microsoft probably expects you to do is get your management to buy new computers that support Windows 11 and/or whatever the hell their current server OS is, and in the process give them and their hardware vendor partners a lot of money.
What you can do instead is switch to Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC which is what I did at my workplace recently. It’s supported until 2032 with security updates. Not feature updates, but I suspect that business users probably don’t care about those much. In fact, most people would probably treat that as a benefit. It also comes with basically no bloatware (except goddamned Edge), which is surprising. No Copilot, no Cortana, no Recall. None of that shit.
We have a fleet of machines that “can’t” be upgraded to Win11 because of hardware shortcomings, at least without overriding the requirements with Rufus or similar. Unfortunately we also rely on a small but important spread of proprietary Windows-only applications which have no open source or Linux replacements, and at least two of them absolutely will not run in Wine. Believe me, I tried.
The only wrinkle with this is that you cannot upgrade or license swap in place. You have to do a full reinstall, which for us is not a problem because we have a modest number of computers and I have physical access to all of them. None are bricked up behind a wall or anything.
We have a machine at work which is beefy and works as a server and backups for many many years on windows 10. Why the hell should I upgrade my buisness critical system ??
Because you should be using a server grade os instead of janking things together with desktop OS installs that just make everything so much harder (and aren’t supported for as long).
Sorry, I have to clean up installs like this at least once a year when we take on clients from internal IT that just made things work instead of making something that works right, so I’ve got opinions.
Why should the financial sector ever switch away from their amazing COBOL code base? Why should anyone switch away from VGA, works just fine? No need for USB, PS2 etc. work just fine.
