prominent foreign policy experts (former senators, military officers, diplomats, etc.) sent an open letter to Clinton outlining their opposition to NATO expansion back in 1997:
George Kennan, arguably America’s greatest ever foreign policy strategist, the architect of the U.S. cold war strategy warned that NATO expansion was a “tragic mistake” that ought to ultimately provoke a “bad reaction from Russia” back in 1998.
Jack F. Matlock Jr., US Ambassador to the Soviet Union from 1987-1991, warning in 1997 that NATO expansion was “the most profound strategic blunder, [encouraging] a chain of events that could produce the most serious security threat […] since the Soviet Union collapsed”
Even Gorbachev warned about this. All these experts were marginalized, silenced, and ignored. Yet, now people are trying to rewrite history and pretend that Russia attacked Ukraine out of the blue and completely unprovoked.
We could also say that war over there actually started in 2014.
But as you also stated, a lot of people were surprised since there is not a neo-liberal side against a communist side anymore since there is no communism anymore in Russia (Do you agree with this? Apart from the single-party political structure which can be called with various names, the economy is maybe watched by the gov but still liberal).
The fact that Russia is no longer communist and NATO has continued to expand and surround Russia is a clear demonstration that this has never been an ideological conflict. And that illustrates that Russia does indeed have legitimate security concerns, because it’s clear that the goal of NATO expansion is to contain Russia.
Yeah that was supposed to be the big prize, and then they could plunder Russia and surround China from the west. Didn’t really work out though, and now all the western fash are seething.
It’s been invaded precisely because the US refused to publicly state that Ukraine would not joined NATO and wanted to maintain ambiguity on the matter while arming Ukraine. Nice of you to try and twist that around though. Gold star for mental gymnastics.
Nope, US clearly said no to NATO for them already in 2009, much before the Russian invasions.
Dude, this stuff you’re telling is at least three yo. It’s been largely debunked.
All the ex Warsaw hate Russia even if they’ve slavic roots in common like Poland or Ukraine, just take a look on what that people state and do. This should tell you much about how much this people want to avoid Moscow’s influence.
Nato is a defensive org, so it’s absolutely not important for Russia if Ukraine joining that, unless Russia wants to conquer Ulraine, which is the only reason why they do not want thta to happen.
Putin wanted to invade Ukraine, and they did it. They don’t want to have democracy close to their border, caise you know…people don’t like to live in a dictatoriship.
NATO is not a offensive org, it has continuously invaded countries throughout its deplorable existence. The fact that anybody could claim it’s defensive is beyond hilarious.
Can’t believe you Russians are so desperate to spam propaganda even on Lemmy 😂. You guys are like an infection for the globe.
Anyway.
All this NATO stuff is just bs. West did everything possible to appease Russia, they refuse to let Ukraina in to do not piss off Moscow and even gave an office to Russian in the NATO headquarter! I mean, what should they do? Give Putin a bj?
It didn’t work simply cause Putin is a psycho narcisist and he just want everything his bloody way. He told clearly he wants the old Warsaw under his feet, so why all this stupid talks about Nato membership?
Does Ukraine belongs Russia? No.
Does Ukraine wants to belongs Russia? No.
Should Putin go f**k himself? Yes.
The only one spreading propaganda here is you. The whole war was about Ukraine joining NATO, that’s just the basic fact of the situation. You can keep repeating your bullshit till you’re blue in the face, but it’s not going to change reality.
Meanwhile, the west are the ones who overthrew the legitimate government in Ukraine and installed the current fascist regime. And all you fascists can go fuck yourselves. You’re not fooling anybody.
After three years in Ukraine, it’s obvious to anybody with a minimally functional brain that Russia is not going to be able to invade Europe. However, what Russia will absolutely do is exploit the political instability in Europe caused by massive austerity needed to massively ramp up defense. Why invade the idiots when it’s far cheaper to do political capture.
What is also obvious to anybody with a minimally functional brain is that Russia would invade if they thought they could. Therefore ramping up defence is a good idea to dissuade Russia from thinking it’s a good idea. Even with that deterrence, those not covered by this (Moldova, Georgia, as mentioned) are still vulnerable.
Well, did you think you could have been told that Russia invaded Ukraine? With a straight face?
This is what all the experts have been warning of literally since the 90s.
https://truthout.org/articles/us-approach-to-ukraine-and-russia-has-left-the-domain-of-rational-discourse/
https://truthout.org/articles/noam-chomsky-us-military-escalation-against-russia-would-have-no-victors/
prominent foreign policy experts (former senators, military officers, diplomats, etc.) sent an open letter to Clinton outlining their opposition to NATO expansion back in 1997:
George Kennan, arguably America’s greatest ever foreign policy strategist, the architect of the U.S. cold war strategy warned that NATO expansion was a “tragic mistake” that ought to ultimately provoke a “bad reaction from Russia” back in 1998.
Jack F. Matlock Jr., US Ambassador to the Soviet Union from 1987-1991, warning in 1997 that NATO expansion was “the most profound strategic blunder, [encouraging] a chain of events that could produce the most serious security threat […] since the Soviet Union collapsed”
Even Gorbachev warned about this. All these experts were marginalized, silenced, and ignored. Yet, now people are trying to rewrite history and pretend that Russia attacked Ukraine out of the blue and completely unprovoked.
We could also say that war over there actually started in 2014. But as you also stated, a lot of people were surprised since there is not a neo-liberal side against a communist side anymore since there is no communism anymore in Russia (Do you agree with this? Apart from the single-party political structure which can be called with various names, the economy is maybe watched by the gov but still liberal).
The fact that Russia is no longer communist and NATO has continued to expand and surround Russia is a clear demonstration that this has never been an ideological conflict. And that illustrates that Russia does indeed have legitimate security concerns, because it’s clear that the goal of NATO expansion is to contain Russia.
Not so much contain as to colonise, Russia has been contained all that time but they still expanded more.
Yeah that was supposed to be the big prize, and then they could plunder Russia and surround China from the west. Didn’t really work out though, and now all the western fash are seething.
Containing Russia is probably some thing due to the fact that Russia does not allow a political choice since decades
As opposed to Europe where elections get cancelled when the wrong candidate wins? 🤣
What are referring to?
I think to the Romanian election.
It was not just a question of a “unauthorized” tiktok campaign
https://sopuli.xyz/post/23628914
All the ex Warsaw begged for a membership, it wasn’t the USA teasing them.
And in fact US denied Ukraine a NATO membership, and funnily it’s been invaded.
It’s been invaded precisely because the US refused to publicly state that Ukraine would not joined NATO and wanted to maintain ambiguity on the matter while arming Ukraine. Nice of you to try and twist that around though. Gold star for mental gymnastics.
Nope, US clearly said no to NATO for them already in 2009, much before the Russian invasions.
Dude, this stuff you’re telling is at least three yo. It’s been largely debunked.
All the ex Warsaw hate Russia even if they’ve slavic roots in common like Poland or Ukraine, just take a look on what that people state and do. This should tell you much about how much this people want to avoid Moscow’s influence.
No, the US never took NATO off the table. At least try to lie about something that’s not demonstrably false.
Nato is a defensive org, so it’s absolutely not important for Russia if Ukraine joining that, unless Russia wants to conquer Ulraine, which is the only reason why they do not want thta to happen.
Putin wanted to invade Ukraine, and they did it. They don’t want to have democracy close to their border, caise you know…people don’t like to live in a dictatoriship.
NATO is not a offensive org, it has continuously invaded countries throughout its deplorable existence. The fact that anybody could claim it’s defensive is beyond hilarious.
It’s the moment you took Chomsky that I understood you don’t have hope 😂
Can’t believe you Russians are so desperate to spam propaganda even on Lemmy 😂. You guys are like an infection for the globe.
Anyway.
All this NATO stuff is just bs. West did everything possible to appease Russia, they refuse to let Ukraina in to do not piss off Moscow and even gave an office to Russian in the NATO headquarter! I mean, what should they do? Give Putin a bj?
It didn’t work simply cause Putin is a psycho narcisist and he just want everything his bloody way. He told clearly he wants the old Warsaw under his feet, so why all this stupid talks about Nato membership?
Does Ukraine belongs Russia? No. Does Ukraine wants to belongs Russia? No. Should Putin go f**k himself? Yes.
End of the story.
The only one spreading propaganda here is you. The whole war was about Ukraine joining NATO, that’s just the basic fact of the situation. You can keep repeating your bullshit till you’re blue in the face, but it’s not going to change reality.
Meanwhile, the west are the ones who overthrew the legitimate government in Ukraine and installed the current fascist regime. And all you fascists can go fuck yourselves. You’re not fooling anybody.
End of story.
I wonder what the mental gymnastics will be if/when Russia invades non-NATO countries like Moldova and Georgia.
Come back to me when any of your deranged fantasies actually come true and then we’ll talk.
Yes, total fantasy. They would never do such a thing.
After three years in Ukraine, it’s obvious to anybody with a minimally functional brain that Russia is not going to be able to invade Europe. However, what Russia will absolutely do is exploit the political instability in Europe caused by massive austerity needed to massively ramp up defense. Why invade the idiots when it’s far cheaper to do political capture.
What is also obvious to anybody with a minimally functional brain is that Russia would invade if they thought they could. Therefore ramping up defence is a good idea to dissuade Russia from thinking it’s a good idea. Even with that deterrence, those not covered by this (Moldova, Georgia, as mentioned) are still vulnerable.