Wayland has at least one deal breaker for me. It doesn’t remember where my windows were at logout when saving the session. I have six virtual desktops and have specific windows in certain desktops. Putting everything back where they belong after each login, no thank you. Until they add that I’ll stick to X11.
You actually think the X11 protocol remembers any window positions?
Neither Wayland nor X11 do. It has always been the window manager that does it and whether or not some specific window manager does this using either protocol is an implementation detail of the WM.
That’s not a Wayland issue, that’s a compositor issue. Sway for example allows mapping apps to workspaces.
This is a genius move by the creators of Wayland. By not having any feature whatsoever but instead relying on compositors to do anything even if not related to windows management, they can deflect all criticism!
KDE + wayland on Tumbleweed gave me this experience.
For that matter, Xorg didn’t handle this either, DEs or WMs did.
Thts also what i do on hyprland too
You can configure this with window rules and autostart apps when Hyprland starts. That’s not remembering what you had open the last time, but it will probably give you the experience you’re looking for.
It’s incredible that wayland is so incapable that it can’t even keep this kind of state, and we’re back to having to basically having to write .xinit scripts. Because that’s what little so far wayland offers: less than xinit.
That’s a really weird and dishonest take. If a compositor wants to implement that feature it absolutely can, Wayland or not has nothing to do with it. I’m just saying it isn’t implemented the way you want in the compositors I know of. Seems like all it needs is compositor developers who want what you want.
Not the same thing. With session saving I don’t have configure anything.
I ended up switching to Wayland 3 or 4 years ago precisely because X11 was so shit about remembering my monitor positions. I had to run an xrandr script every time it booted or otherwise decided to shit itself. Using 2 GPUs didn’t seem like it was thought about in the X11 design.
Dual GPUs are no issue for x.org it’s just that automatic configuration assumes a somewhat standard machine or it gets confused. Should I tell you about the days before automatic configuration, of hand-editing XF86Config to tell the X server that no, I didn’t have a serial or ps/2 mouse but an USB one, and it had three buttons and a mouse wheel? Of seeing a list of monitor timings with the comment “CHOOSING THE WRONG THING MIGHT DESTROY YOUR HARDWARE”?
xrandr is actually quite recent (or I may be ancient), being able to do all that stuff at runtime was a godsend.
Oh, I fought with X11 many times over the past three decades (almost) that I’ve used Linux. But as soon as I could push that mess behind me because Wayland did as good or better, I jumped on that horse, let me tell you.
Fully customised Hyprland use half as much ram as Plasma, but I still prefer Plasma because I can’t get used to WM
How much RAM does it use and how does this compare to running a web browser with a few open tabs?
Seriously, unless some memory leak makes a DE consume 10 gigs of RAM, nobody will notice because DE’s RAM use is dwarfed by what end user applications use. 10 years ago I got a notebook for 600 Euro with a 16 GB RAM upgrade for an additional 100 Euro.
Performance differences are either rendering speed or perceived performance because of animation speed. With the exception of embedded hardware, RAM use for desktops is irrelevant since quite some time (and on such constrained hardware you can’t properly browse the web anyway).
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I’m on sway for the same reason.
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What do you folks on hyprland/sway use for your shell / toolbars / launcher? I tried nwg and it was… OK but pretty clunky. No shade for the developers of the project, all the settings pages and system config stuff is a TON to put together…
I don’t need something as full-featured as KDE or Gnome Settings. I’d prefer a well-polished minimalist launcher and task manager / toolbar over something that does everything
On hyprland, I use hyprpanel for a bar, rofi for launcher. Check out AGS/Astal for some crazy powerful widgets
Just grab some prebuilt .config files. I just switched from maintaining my own “custom” set to the endeavorOS community repo for sway, and it’s seriously amazing. Not too much, but has everything I need working right out the box.
I’m using fuzzel as my launcher. No complaints so far
(I came from i3)
Still use rofi, because too lazy to configure something else. (My scripts are heavily based on https://github.com/adi1090x/rofi).
I took my polybar config and made waybar look pretty much the same.
Not sure what you mean by “shell” exactly.
Hyprland with Waybar. Kitty for shell, and keybindings for launching. I may add a launcher down the road but I kinda love custom keybindings for launching my apps.
On river here, loving it
I don’t know what happnend but you’re using an open source program not his dick yk, and if you think that way then you shouldn’t be using a single thing in your life, fucking morons
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I’m ootl, whats wrong with the lead person?
cryptofash that hides behind free speech and allows nazis and that to post in the discord and banned a trans person that called out the messages by those users for “inciting arguments” and repeatedly misgendered them then went on about how they’re not bigoted they just believe in free speech and blamed the user and pretending they were the victim and then when people said they should have a code of conduct he said doing that was just a hassle and how it would make it impossible to do lead dev stuff for him to enforce the rules while saying they have rules against that sort of thing anyway so blatant doublespeak where he’s saying he’s moderating and everyone’s lying but also if he had to moderate he’d be too busy to develop
All sounds awful but I’m mostly confused as to why a software project needs a discord
To have drama.
Collaboration among their own developers, maybe. And support for users. Both of those could be done other ways, but Discord has a lot of pull as a free place to build and manage a community.
because as much as old people hate to acknowledge it mailing lists and github (and alternatives) suck they’re terrible for actual conversations to try and coax more info out of the user when they ask for support people aren’t logged into those 24/7 a lot of people are with discord and everyone’s familiar with it and already has an account and knows the UI how many people actually have a github account and know how to use it and will actually ever log back in to give more information if asked vs putting a discord button somewhere someone pops in reports the issue then if there’s not enough info you can @ them and they’ll come back as soon as they see it
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anyone that says there’s no history just refuses to learn to use discord discord has a very powerful and easy to use search feature I can find exact conversations from years ago in literally seconds the interface thing is subjective but whether it’s bad or not people know how to use it atleast and the third party could disappear whenever applies to github most forums too this is what I mean by refuse to acknowledge I’ve had fat better experiences with support on discord than any alternative
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The search is horrible!!! The order of words affects the results! It has no way of searching for what you actually typed instead of what it thinks is a better search query.
anyone that says there’s no history just refuses to learn to use discord discord has a very powerful and easy to use search feature
Kindly point me to the URL for a saved search.
I fucking hate Discord with a passion because of all the information basically being held behind a proprietary piece of software, so I downloaded Legcord to at least be able to join those communities without sacrificing my own privacy.
Highly recommend it! I have a Fallout terminal theme, and actually enjoy using it for once knowing that the actual app is not installed on my computer. :)
Adamant transphobe, but in that insidious way where they justify letting people get bullied in the Discord because their “not on anyone’s side and value different opinions”. A trans person in the Discord server was targeted by another member and intentionally misgendered repeatedly. They spent multiple blogs basically saying “people are snowflakes, we dont want an echo chamber”. Like wtf. (IIRC, working off my memory since I read about it like 2 months ago)
Why not Sway?
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Fair enough
I absolutely love sway. It’s everything I need, and nothing I don’t. Just works for me
Meh. Does it do anything KDE can’t?
Well, yes, but that’s besides the point since they’re totally different types of software. KDE can also do a shit ton of things that Hyprland can’t, and isn’t expected to ever try doing.
If dmenu was made by a nazi I wouldn’t give a shit because its just dmenu but hyprland is so clearly made by a pack of
/g/zoomers who want their desktops to look like 1337 haXors without any access to the low level systems. Its all discord script kiddie hype-beasts.Its a tiling window manager made by people who never used a tiling window manager on X11. I know I’m sounding like an elitist boomer but this shit really violates some core Unix principals of making small composable utilities that empower the user. RiverWM or Sway keep to this philosophy.
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that’s like 75-80% of all development these days. bunch of discord scriptkiddie crapware that’s not even worth the headache to “configure it right”.
I shouldn’t have to configure shit, it should just fucking work.
I blame silicon valley startups and vtubers. these low effort wannabe developers just want to make a name for themselves to move up the ladder. problem is, when everybody is artificially inflating their hype-blimps something is bound to crash and burn.
we used to write software to solve problems, not make up problems to solve with software.
each year I get closer to retirement I’m grateful I won’t have to put up with these egotistical inflatable engineers or their “solutions” for any longer than I have to.
What do vtubers have to do with this?
short attention spans with zero integrity when it comes to mistreating or abusing their viewers. the majority of successful vtubers are toxic and corrosive socialites that simply want to be at the front of attention, striving to be the “top influencer”.
this kind of cancer only bled into development because they are both positions that rely on advanced technology.
now you have devs that treat their jobs like influencers do and “swoop in to save the day” only to fuck you when they moved on to greener pastures.
I’ve personally seen it happen at least 3 times in five years.
anyone who claims themselves as a “rockstar”, “forward thinker”, “innovator” or “disruptor” is a horrible developer and needs to go away. we don’t want you.
if they can’t explain to me why their shitty changes increased memory consumption by 25% they’re not a dev, they’re a script kiddie.
that said, greenhorns need apply. you’re ok but don’t get cocky. watch and learn. asking questions is good, don’t share your opinions unless you know enough that you can defend them. and don’t get bent out of shape when someone tells you your idea isn’t going to work.
too bad the guy behind hyprland is a shitty little nazi twerp
It’s open source right? Can’t a new maintainer just fork it and tell the Nazi to punch himself?
Sure.
I ain’t gonna do it tho. KDE is working well enough for me.
What did he do ?
Bloated?
I just wish Wayland weren’t so weird about screensavers. It’s it so much to ask to be able to lock my account when I have a screensaver activated?*
*This is what I’m told is the issue when it’s brought up on KDE, i really don’t have the wherewithal to actually dig into it. Could be talking out of my ass on this. Hope I am at least.
KDE locks the screen out of the box, in fact looking through the GUI options I currently see no way to do a screensaver without locking. Though granted you don’t need the compositor to do that anyways.
What’s true is that not just any program can lock the screen under wayland, it has to be the compositor or a program the compositor grants the power to do so. That’s so that “press alt-tab to login” type prompts can reliably sniff out keyloggers.
Old ≠ bad
Personally I don’t need fancy. I need stability. If it ain’t broken, don’t fix it, and I haven’t experienced issues with Xorg… But then again, I ditched Ubuntu in 2012 because they switched to that awful search bar launcher doohickey, so I might be a dinosaur in this regard.
If it ain’t broken
But it is…
I still have (or rather had) some screen-tearing somewhere. I very much have annihilated that issue with settings in X11 (though some application somewhere still has issues, be it the video player). And it just feels clunky non the less.
Although I’m currently not using Hyprland, it really feels nice to use, really flowy. I’m currently testing COSMIC (which is reasonably still in alpha, as I got issues with *** nvidia, like suspend sometimes hangs the computer).
That said, I think it’s still ok to wait until the whole ecosystem is well supported in wayland, and *** nvidia finally got their wayland shit together.
If it ain’t broken
But it is…
OK, let me add to that: if it works for me I ain’t doing anything.
If Xorg doesn’t work for your use case, then of course you should deal with it.
But I don’t game, the wildest graphical stuff I do is watching a video while running a terminal emulator, and I hate changes to my work flow.
I was building a kiosk for my home assistant with my Raspberry Pi. It was very complicated to set up a cage compositor, set up XWayland, setup Chromium Wayland flags, libinput rules, and the touchscreen mapping still doesn’t work… am I missing something here? For X11 everything just works right out of the box…
Sounds like you’re missing a DE
I want a lightweight kiosk without any DE, and I think a cage would work just fine. Maybe I should use Sway to open a single maximum window instead? It seems more bloated than using
xinitwith a Chromium window, which defeats the entire purpose…I know Valves game scope is a micro compositor made to display one window (intended for a game). But I don’t know if it’s applicable for you.
… am I missing something here?
X11.
Unless you have a real reason not to use X11, why not just use X11?
Bloat-ware
If you want a lightweight compositor, then boy do i have just the right thing for you
It’s 3x smaller than dwl! Perfect! (and can only run one program by the tty… but no bloat!!!)
Hyprland is transphobic
It’s software with no opinion.
issue is, so many things have been called transphobic, from mere personal opinions to accidents to actual transphobia, i just can’t trust a blanket “foo is transphobic” comment.
Sounds and smells like actual bullshit to me
Hyprland’s community has a history of toxicity: https://drewdevault.com/2023/09/17/Hyprland-toxicity.html
Seems fine
Drew Devault has a history of trying to sabotage FOSS communities, just saying
Whoa that GH issue is pretty bad. What a bunch of babies.
Who is joining communities for window managers?
How is a tiling wm transphobic? Seriously get a life.
Obviously they meant the community.
I don’t agree to that either
What do you mean?
I don’t think it’s community is transphobic
the part where the community has been actively hostile to trans folks doesn’t make 'em transphobic?
Community? It was 1 mod 3 years ago that was already removed. Wdym “actively”?
You gonna provide a source? It’s been a couple days now.
What? How is software transphobic
Because people are still Reddit-brained, have no capacity for nuance and thrive on outrage like an addict.
For the addicts with their finger smashing the downvote button:
Elon Musk is an idiot. But that doesn’t mean that a Tesla Model S is an idiot.
A Hyprland developer could be transphobic, members who comment in the community could be transphobic but that doesn’t make the software transphobic.
Software doesn’t have political opinions.
If you want to not be hypocritical and examine all products with the same ridiculous level of scrutiny then you’re probably using electronic components in your house, car, smartphone and PC that were sourced using slave labor, child labor or built by countries that engage in human rights abuse.
The electricity used to allow you to uncritically attack people online was generated by means which contribute to climate change which will kill or displace hundreds of millions of people.
The language you’re using is primarily used by cultures who have historically engaged in colonialism, piracy, slavery, religious oppression, ethnic cleansing and wars of aggression.
So, unless you’re willing to sit in a forest and never communicate with another person, you’re going to be using technology which, if you pedantically dig deep enough, you can find some “problematic” behaviors associated with.
Or, you could not act ignorant in online spaces. That’s also an option.
Elon Musk is an idiot. But that doesn’t mean that a Tesla Model S is an idiot.
While I agree with the point you’re trying to make, Teslas are hot garbage with shit quality control that has led to quite a few deaths. I wouldn’t ride in one, let alone buy one. If cars could be idiots, Teslas would be.
A better example would have been SpaceX.
For the addicts with their finger smashing the downvote button
Lol, dude, at the 3.5 hour mark since you edited, and the 3.52 hour mark since you wrote the post, you have a whole TWO downvotes. Persecution complex much?
It’s predictable (3.52 hours in advance, apparently) that the kind of people who enjoy low-effort outrage content (like calling a piece of software transphobic) are the same people who are unable express themselves with words. They rely on downvotes or little drive-by ad hominem quips rather than their ability to contribute anything of substance.
That’s why, in this thread, not one person can answer a simple question such as ‘How is software transphobic’ despite 10 people downvoting the person for asking. They can’t answer because there isn’t an answer, it is a nonsense statement meant to generate outrage.
It’s the exact same level of ignorance that you see from social media users on the right, in their endless quest to ‘own the libs’. It’s ignorant when they do it, and it’s ignorant when people on the other end of the political spectrum do it.
Nah mate, it’s more. Who could be bothered to refute an idiot?
Its far easier, more satisfying and fun to call a cunt a cunt and move on.
Btw, you’re a cunt
I’d love to try a tiling wm but KDE and mate are the only things i can get to look the way i like, and i can’t find anyone else that made a glossy frutiger aero hyprland rice
While hyprland is really nice, it is made by a transphobe and a large part of the community is also. Switch to something else there are a lot of good alternatives. Kind of a protest against him.
I misread this as “made me a transphobe”
the animations man… they really just made me hate those people
Rounded corners and no border on floating windows has inspired many hate crimes
[…] [Hyprland] is made by a transphobe and a large part of the community is also […]
Do you have a source?
Get the fuck out of here centrist
tsk tsk, extremist.
Look at their comments. Its always do you have a source, can you explain, etc, never adding to the discussion. Classical centrist arguments and im gonna die on this hill.
How is knowing a context a centrist argument? People want to understand.
Having to support your argument with facts and reasoning is a well known leftist plot to undermine my feeling-based reality.
Huh. Look at that, another toxic user to block.
Kant was racist so lets all ignore his works too?
Based, fuck the categorical imperative lmao
Heidegger was a literal Nazi but we still still use his work because Being and Time is so important.
Using hyprland in no way benefits the developer to be clear, I would just not donate, beyond that it really doesn’t matter
I disagree. Open source thrives on attention. Install count is like their cocaine.
Shit take.
Disregarding projects or ideas due to unrelated issues is just stupid.
Then don’t do it.
Install count isn’t necessarily reported, and all forms of reporting that I know of on linux are opt-in
Popularity give them followers, followers give them money
Popularity has nothing to do with install count, and nearly every distro does opt-in to show what you’re running.
yeah if its a good program you can use it, even if it’s made by horrible people
one example is templeos. everyone likes it, even if the guy who made it was an asshole
though hyprland is different since you can donate, but like you said, you can just not donate to them!
also nice name and pfp
TempleOS is a marvel in many ways, but it’s not particularly useful to any normal person. I wouldn’t even say that Terry Davis was an asshole, because it feels wrong to hold a paranoid schizophrenic responsible for his manic episodes.
if I don’t pay the dev, and dont interact with the community, whats wrong with hyprland?
Pretty sure the lead lemmy dev has said some transphobic things as well. They’re a major tankie at least.
Thanks for the heads up, but I’m browsing lemmy on a device that is produced at least in part by slave labor somewhere along the logistics chain. At some point I think you just have to disengage from developer drama.
Is there like a word that stands for, “I can’t be perfect so I gave up trying to be better”?
i guess “asshole” fits
i know you probably weren’t looking for a swearword, but…well…if it fits ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
and let’s be real…the people you’re referring to tend to be ignorant by choice, offensive, and generally unpleasant…
Fair take. Still i try to at least somewhat distance myself from people who want to murder my friends and family… sometimes youre forced to used somethi g you dont want to. Still with linux ricing it is a bit hypocritical to say that you want to use the easiest option as ricing is literally taking the hard path. Just use kde or gnome then. Also, hate the transphobes and not the people who use the software they make, important note.
At some point I think you just have to disengage from developer drama.
Let’s not remind them who made JavaScript, lol.
It’s in large part made thanks to slave and child labour, with rare metals more-often-than-not sourced in areas of conflict.
Wayland breaks VMware and steam for me. Am I stupid?
both are still not native and need the XWayland compatibility layer, which is usually (but might be turned off) compiled into your Wayland desktop manager
I’m using Mint. Not sure if that helps anything. I can double check that compatibility layer
Mint is a Linux distribution, not a window manager. These are KDE Plasma, Gnome, Cinnamon, Sway, labwc, XFCE, etc.
In addition to what Neonred wrote: Steam Deck uses Wayland by default and its Steam is configured to run just fine on Wayland, even if it’s possibly using XWayland behind the scenes.
