• communism@lemmy.ml
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    12 days ago

    Everyone who disagrees with me is a paid russian troll of course. Nobody would oppose blacklisting people based on nothing but their nationality unless they were getting paid for it.

    • Vilian@lemmy.ca
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      12 days ago

      That’s true, as he said just use your brain, Russia is under sanctions he literally said that, so Russian troll is a actually very accuracy

    • hitwright@lemmy.world
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      12 days ago

      I guess it’s difficult to otherwise explain the position you have? It’s not like people face criminal charges in Russia just for speaking against it. It’s easy to see how the state would want to introduce backdoors to most western systems.

      It’s extremely sad that a lot of good Russians get swooped in this. But even abroad their lives are in danger to fight the state.

      • ghu@lemmy.ml
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        12 days ago

        I doubt if someone wants to introduce a backdoor, they would do that with a russian mailing address. People removed were open and transparent about their nationalities which means there is even less chance them being bad actors than some random guy pretending to be American.

        • hitwright@lemmy.world
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          12 days ago

          Aren’t the removed commiters with direct access to the kernel? It’s not like it’s some rando that makes pull requests.

      • davel@lemmy.ml
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        12 days ago

        I think you’re making up a world in your head. Who are these “lots” of “good” Russians who are abroad and whose lives are in realistically danger of state assassination? Not that it has never happened, but you’re blowing things out of proportion. Probably Russia does it at a scale roughly similar to the US.

        • LeFantome@programming.dev
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          12 days ago

          Very nice link that not only does not have a list of names but also fairly explicitly explains that it is not talking about Americans killing Americans.

          I am not going to spend more than 30 seconds on it but here is the first list of “lots” of Russians that are believed to have been assassinated by their own government.

          https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspicious_deaths_of_notable_Russians_in_2022–2024

          Despite your personal attacks, the trivially discoverable facts are not on your side.

          I used Wikipedia since you apparently find it credible.

          My favourite “suicide” of a notable Russian in the last couple of years was the one that had a suicide note signed by “illegible signature” ( what it actually said ). I guess the FSB did not totally understand the instructions.

          Indeed A LOT of falling out of windows. Quite a bit of poisoning as well. These are the successful ones. How about that time they poisoned the entire Ukrainian peace team including the owner of the Chelsea Football Club?

        • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          12 days ago

          I think you’re making up a world in your head.

          My friend, they poisoned people in the UK with a fucking nerve agent. They are so brazen and open about people being killed for not doing that the Kremlin tells them.

          They have purposely made a meme out of the “suspiciously fell from window” thing, because they want people to know exactly what happens and why.

          • davel@lemmy.ml
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            12 days ago

            they poisoned people in the UK with a fucking nerve agent.

            Yes, they did. How often is that happening? Proportion.

            • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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              11 days ago

              We’re not talking about taking out former spies in foreign, sovereign nations you dolt. I used that as an example to show just how brazen and open they are about this stuff. Using such a dangerous method, on foreign soil, is basically unheard of.

              If you actually want to talk about frequency, we should be looking at the defenestration cases…

              This shit is happening so frequently that there are several wiki pages dedicated to listing them:

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspicious_deaths_of_notable_Russians_in_2022

              Scroll down to “see also” for a long list of related articles about the Russian government assassinating citizens and low-level bureaucrats.

              Assuming you actually give a shit

              EDIT: apparently Lemmy markdown doesn’t like the link. For anyone who can’t figure out why it’s not working, or for some weird reason thinks I would make up a wiki page with a title that specific:

              Suspicious deaths of notable Russians in 2022–2024

              And, again, after checking out the main article, take a look at the “see also” section.

              • davel@lemmy.ml
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                12 days ago

                Wikipedia does not have an article with this exact name.

                In any case, the defenestrations I’ve heard of have been within Russia, not outside it.

                Using such a dangerous method, on foreign soil, is basically unheard of.

                Not unheard of. US drone strikes on US citizens is a no-less dangerous a method.

                • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                  11 days ago

                  It’s almost as if the markdown on Lemmy changed the text of the link so it’s not valid.

                  And you couldn’t take the 3 second to fix it, and then actually learn something.

                  Well done.

                  You also seem confused about what we are even talking about. We are referring to software developers WITHIN RUSSIA. So the risk of defenestration is very real. Again, to repeat myself, I only brought up Russia using chemical warfare on foreign soil as an example to show how open and brazen they are.

                  I edited the original comment with a fixed link if you actually care

  • umbrella@lemmy.ml
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    12 days ago

    so are we okay with banning development time donated to foss because of nationality?

    are these people found to support heinous shit or is this just wartime shenanigans?

    • half_built_pyramids@lemmy.world
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      11 days ago

      Dude is Finnish, from his own mouth, it’s just normal racism against an aggressive imperial, like how people hate the us

      Edit: like how people from lemmy.ml hate Americans, if that wasn’t clear

      • umbrella@lemmy.ml
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        12 days ago

        finland has pretty bad climate-change-exploitation-fucking-over-the-third-world dealings in my country, despite enforcing seemingly very good stuff inside their own borders so meh, id argue they aint close to the victims they make out to be. some would argue that as a consequence for having a strong socialist influence.

        i have mixed feelings about them as a country, but i recognize there are plenty of good (and even well known good) people on there because of the aforementioned good stuff, linus included. for different but not that dissimilar reasons i think contemporary russian citizens should not be blanket banned from helping everyone out.

        • ouch@lemmy.world
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          12 days ago

          finland has pretty bad, climate-change-exploitation-fucking-over-the-third-world dealings in my country

          Which country is that, and what dealings?

          • umbrella@lemmy.ml
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            12 days ago

            brazil, and they do some shady stuff in the amazon. mainly fuck you extrativism.

            • ouch@lemmy.world
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              12 days ago

              Can you find any links where one can read about this?

              If Finland is wasting tax payer money to something shady, it should be brought to the local media.

              • umbrella@lemmy.ml
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                11 days ago

                heres one i found with a quick google.

                this one is about southeast/northeast brazil, but the finnish are involved in aggressive extractivism in northwest brazil (amazon rainforest) too, and i think its even worse over there. you will dig up pretty horrible things if you do some research on it. about most of the western 1st world countries tbh.

  • Arcturus@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    12 days ago

    We’re gonna start seeing large open source communities start to break into smaller ones because of sanctions from now aren’t we?

    • TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world
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      12 days ago

      Always is with Phoronix comments.

      You find everything there from “Gnome is satanist” all the way up to pro-genocide crap.

      I really don’t know what it is about the site that brings out the craziest souch.

      • SquirtleHermit@lemmy.world
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        12 days ago

        For half a second there, I was like “yeah, so glad Lemmy is more rational than that site”.

        Few comments later, folks be talking about “Ukranian Nazis”…

          • GeneralInterest@lemmy.world
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            11 days ago

            I would wager that every country has far-right elements, including Russia.

            What Russia claims though is that the Ukrainian government is full of Nazis, which I don’t think is true.

        • Rentlar@lemmy.ca
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          12 days ago

          Hahaha I saw the parent commentor of that chain notorious for getting into back and forth arguments, sometimes reasonable sometimes not, and I thought to myself, this is going to be fun. Then I recognized the username of that other .ml user as a known troll and I was like, yep now this is going to go way off the rails.

        • Jesus_666@lemmy.world
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          12 days ago

          Hoo boy, you weren’t kidding. I find it amazing how quickly this went from “the kernel team is enforcing sanctions” to an an unfriendly abstract debate about the definition of liberalism. I shouldn’t, really, but I still am.

      • LupertEverett@lemmy.world
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        12 days ago

        The absolute disregard of having any moderation is what does that. If there was any, there wouldn’t be the cases like having someone be there by their third account, after the first two got banned.

        Not to mention that controversy = angry people and trolls = more clicks = more ad revenue. I don’t think Michael wants to miss out on it.

    • Aatube@kbin.melroy.org
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      12 days ago

      Yeah. Why is everyone saying this is removing their contribution credits? It’s just a list of active maintainers…

      • rtxn@lemmy.world
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        12 days ago

        That’s a fair point. I rarely read comments on news articles, but morbid curiosity overpowered my self-preservation instinct.

  • ouch@lemmy.world
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    12 days ago

    As a finn, I understand that there are probably legal reasons for doing this.

    I just wish they would be transparent and share those reasons with us. The Linux kernel is certainly not the only free software project that is impacted, if this comes straight from EU/US sanctions. Maintainers of other projects have a lot of interest in what is happening.

    Transparency is also important because if EU/US policy/sanctions are causing issues for free software projects, then that discussion needs to be public, so that there is a chance to amend the policies if necessary.

    • sudo@programming.dev
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      11 days ago

      The legal reasons was because the Linux Foundation is based in the USA and the targeted devs worked for companies explicitly sanctioned by the USA. Linus said he knew and trusted the devs he was forced to delist.

      The Linux Foundation needs to relocate to some stable neutral country like Switzerland.

      • orcrist@lemm.ee
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        11 days ago

        It has to be there, because politics is connected with lawmaking, and open source software is dependent on laws.

        A lot of people like to say that politics isn’t in their life or that they keep politics out of their life, but the reality is that’s just not true. The rules that govern society affect you, always, either with or without your input, either with or without your acknowledgment.

        You’re probably trying to say that we should keep pointless politicking out of open source software, and I agree, but that’s going to come down to personal definitions of pointlessness.

      • kmaismith@lemm.ee
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        12 days ago

        That is hardcore wishful thinking, the nature by which critical digital infrastructure is developed and maintained is of keen importance to political systems everywhere. This situation was inevitable with the ongoing escalation of war

        • Alsephina@lemmy.ml
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          12 days ago

          That’s why the “should be” I guess, though that’s not to say there aren’t idiots (right in this thread too) actually shilling for this.

          If current open source licenses still have flaws like this, we’re gonna need new ones.

      • JackbyDev@programming.dev
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        12 days ago

        FOSS is inherently political though, but I guess you mean country vs country politics moreso than ideological politics.

  • JustMarkov@lemmy.ml
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    12 days ago

    I was expecting an adequate response, but this… I’ll just say I’m very disappointed.

    • Faresh@lemmy.ml
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      12 days ago

      Linux is the kernel, not the OS. RedStar uses Linux as the kernel.

      • CaptDust@sh.itjust.works
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        12 days ago

        I understand, thank you. My statement kind of assumes north korea is maintaining a fork of the kernel they patch and customize. It also implies NK is one of the few organizations that would accept russian contributions into their fork, given the somewhat limited number of linux projects operating outside of the sanctions.