Wait, they think people want Copilot? Like enough to pay money for it?
They are banking on customers being too invested in office to switch.
I think that might be their plan for all their products at this point. Just existing though inertia.
For reasons I won’t get into, I had a chance to peruse the training program for the sales force of Azure and their strategy actually is telling their potential clients that they already subscribe to Office 365 so they might as well use their cloud too.
Yeah, it does not surprise me. The thing that does is how common the approach seems to be in big established tech companies. I mean, it generally never works out (look at IBM, Intel, Sun, and to some degree Apple).
It’s a safe bet. I wonder if enterprise pricing is that high.
That with a side of suppressing a competitor. Similar to how they include Teams for corporate plans. If it is included in your M$ apps suite, then your company might want to cut back on Slack and just make due.
MS teams sucks so fucking much, I don’t understand how such a large company can make such a deficient product.
Copilot Is literally ChatGPT With a diff logo and name.
I use both for work, copilot is worse.
It’s “ENTERPRISE”
They don’t, but by providing a “classic tier” they get to kill anyone’s argument against it by saying “just don’t get it”, until they then discontinue the “classic tier” due to a “lack of demand”, and force Office users to have AI and pay for it too.
Copilot for Teams is extremely useful. Recap meetings and being able to search for specific parts. People hate on AI but in this case they are definitely downplaying the capabilities.
But to be fair I’m not the one paying the bill
Man, I don’t know about even that… It gets stuff wrong all the time. My boss LOVES his AI bot that joins all meetings (even if he doesn’t) to summarize stuff. Occasionally I look over the summary it produces; it’s about 50% actually correct, 25% ambiguous not wrong but not what I meant, and 25% flat out wrong / opposite of what I meant. I’m sure he relies on the results, ugh. One time I went through the summary and corrected it all, but I don’t have time for that for all meetings.
Copilot in my experience is pretty accurate, even if not perfect. Plus it timestamps the meeting so you know where it’s drawing it’s conclusions from.
If meetings are happening so long and going in so frequently that nobody can make sense of them without an ai summary, might I suggest there are too many meetings?
I say this as someone who used to work at a place that had meetings about meetings to figure out why so much time was wasted in meetings.
I mean we can debate root cause and corporate culture and everything, but at the end of the day these meetings exist and copilot make them better.
For anyone who doesn’t already know the good FOSS alternatives:
- Local: Libreoffice
- Cloud/self-hosted: Nextcloud Office
additionally Onlyoffice (But Onlyoffice isnt fully open source)
OnlyOffice, you say?
😏
OnlyOffice doesn’t like open document formats though.
Oh
FOSS GPT: GPT4ALL
There are home users of Microsoft 365?
I’m not shaming but I kinda am. Like WTF is wrong with you? You pay for free shit.
Office employees don’t get to choose.
They bundle it in laptop purchases. M$ dominate because of the b2b stitch up.
Actually I have admin access to my work laptop, so while my employer pays for what ever the fuck they pay for I frequently use FOSS instead.
I do it to make a point.
COPILOT IS NOW A PAID FEATURE??? hell nah, microsoft be banking on their users.
Quickest enshittification.
Fr
So I’ve never used Microsoft office because I could never afford it. I went from notepad to wordpad to OpenOffice to libreoffice. I’ve never had a single issue even as a professional not using word. I actually really enjoy writing as a hobby and I just don’t get this copiolet thing. Why would I want something to do the thing I like doing? Screw that.
For professional settings, I understand the theoretical appeal of ai writing. A lot of people don’t like writing emails, but they have to for work. Many of those same people fret about tone or presentation, because silly office politics reasons (real or one-sidedly imagined in their heads.)
The solution, really is workplaces just need to cut down on the useless drivel emails and people need to be ok with short, no frills emails.
There are tons more applications in the workplace. For example, one of the people in my team is dyslexic and sometimes needs to write reports that are a few pages long. For him, having the super-autocorrect tidy up his grammar makes a big difference.
Sometimes I have a list of say 200 software changes that would be a pain to summarise, but where it’s intuitively easy for me to know if a summary is right. For something like a changelog I can roll the dice with the hallucination machine until I get a correct summary, then tidy it up. That takes less than a tenth of the time than writing it myself.
Sometimes writing is necessary and there’s no way to cut down the drivel unfortunately. Talking about professional settings of course - having the Large Autocorrect writing a blog post or a poem for you is a total misuse of the tool in my opinion.
As a software dev, I have the feeling you just described texts that nobody will ever read :-) or so I feel.
Props for the dyslexic help tho.
Some of these are for insurance, government organisations… They are naturally dry but we can’t get away from them.
Some others that I described like internal changelogs, I agree won’t ever get read. Then if that’s the case I don’t care (much) about the quality - just about doing it as quickly as possible.
worlds most over glorified over priced office website that runs like a slug
I’m so glad I work in an industry where I can get away with using Libre Office.
I spent about 20 minutes today trying to get Copilot on Word to tell me how to disable Copilot on Word. Worth every penny.
I really wonder what their long term plan is here.
Hardly anyone really wants copilot, it doesn’t add a lot of value, yet makes the product less competitive.
I totally get rent seeking, Office is so ingrained that it’s almost impossible to get away from it. But why force AI on everybody? Why not add it as a bonus?
Is this just a desperate attempt to soften the massive losses of the AI investment?
It’s not for you. It’s for them. Copilot digests everything you type into the Office apps, and it provides them with millions of real writing examples that are free from copyright (read the new Office EULA).
And then what? Also, that won’t be legal in the EU.
I mean, you take billions of dollars to develop an AI to put into a product you already have, making it less competitive in the process to … develop a slightly better AI maybe?
Where exactly is the return on investment here?
Why would this not be legal in EU if the conditions of using the copilot are clearly stated in the agreement? GDPR etc is mostly just that: requirement for clear language + informed consent.
I don’t disagree [with your comment (I absolutely disagree with what ms is doing)].
However, like with all technology in the past, where the civilian market received the obsolete military technologies (think, internet, cellphones, gps, and wifi), the consumer facing LLM/AI capabilities are likely nowhere near what the bleeding edge is in the military sector. The consumer facing Copilot is a product to make it “legal enough” to harvest your data, and the EULA people agreed to without reading is the nail on the coffin in that defense. The end product has nothing to do with copilot, office, or even us civilians. We’re just the vehicle.
[Edit in brackets]
To please the shareholders. Then, when AI is no longer deemed valuable and its tremendous costs sink in, they will remove it and layoff the teams that worked on it, to please the shareholders.
That’s way too simplistic, as often.
For the shareholders, having an investment of several billions turn into an unwanted add-on for a few dollars is not a good thing. It’s the opposite, almost like a fire sale.
But they’ll keep the prices high
The AI hardware isn’t for us. It’s for Google and Microsoft, so they can steal your computer’s CPU time and hard drive space so they can build their own personal Skynets. (Same thing with CoPilot, which requires 50gigs of your hard drive space. You’re also paying for the privilege of being spied on, which is nice for them, I guess.)
Just call the sales team and get the classic plan. No more having to deal with Copilot and you get the old price back.
The clippy we all deserved
First thing I do with the Google Assistent on Android Phones is to tell it to disable itself. Cool thing is that it does.
You can do that??
Meanwhile, smart people: I sure do love Libre Office.
Libre Office.
Honestly - and flame away - I hate the name. I hate saying it. It’s the ‘moist’ of borrowed words. Leeeeeeeebr. And I’m a Canadian who did French up to university-level conversational “explain something for 20 min” French (from a gorgeous caribbean dynamo teacher, but I justif–uh, digress) so I know how to say the word and what it means.
And I still hate it. I’m a horrible person – even before I continued French study because the prof was so engaging and energetic and brightened every room and every day and made French interesting just on inclusion.
I feel bad for canadians learning french. It’s a language that’s only useful in like, 1.5 places in the world.
I genuinely believe french canadians are hurting their next generation by filling their heads with nonsense of a dying culture. Kind of like how racists fill their kids’ heads with garbage because they’re afraid of becoming irrelevant.
We should all bow to the American overlords indeed. Coca cola and burgers are the peek of humanity
Wow… do french canadians really believe that learning french is a way to fight back against America?
Just… wow. I knew they were delusional an insecure, but this really puts things into perspective for me.
Glad we could have this conversation.
French Canadians, (Québécois), believe it’s a way to fight other Canadians. If it works against Americans? Well that’s just a bonus.
Yikes.
There are over three hundred
thousandmillion people speaking it. On all continents. It’s fairly useful. Maybe you should travel more.Over three hundred thousand million people? On all continents?
Ok, I mistyped, it’s three hundred million. Don’t know where that thousand came from. :)
Looks like if I want to learn French, I’ll be able to speak it in:
-France
-A few place in Canada that also speak English
-France’s colonies in Africa
-A tiny country in South America most people can’t name by looking at this picture
I rest my case. French canadians are pretentious about the significance of the french language. They don’t want to admit it’s a niche language and they want to waste people’s time learning it in schools because they had to waste their time learning it. They don’t want to admit it was and still is a waste of time and energy for those who are not predominantly interested in specifically French/French canadian culture.
Source for picture: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographical_distribution_of_French_speakers
It’s ok, you don’t have to learn French, nobody’s forcing you.
Lee-bray
Lee-ber
Absolutely not
I pronounce it AbbyWord and Gnumeric. I’m too old to have need of a full office suite anymore-- Libre or not.
Lee-bra, like libra
Glad I’m not the only one questioning the name! I have a pet theory that if they changed it it’d be more popular.
If smart people love libreoffice, then I must be dumb. Working with it always seems weird and I never like it.
Fortunately, I can use LaTeX for work; it is far from without issues but while being arcane sometimes (especially when tables are involved), it never really upsets me and the result looks very good. I can say neither for libreoffice or MS office. But at least the former doesn’t charge for the experience.
I hope typst gains more traction; it seems really intuitive compared to TeX and you don’t necessarily need a macro package. And while it doesn’t produce the quality of TeX-based systems yet, it is already good. Then again, Knuth’s goal first and foremost goal was quality (and it shows); the system just had to be usable by him.
Don’t forget GPT4All or JanAI, for those rare instances that you want to converse with a dumbass.
OnlyOffice for those feeling that Office style itch.
I use ms office 2007 it runs perfectly in wine and still has the cool version of wordart
Huh, do you think I can run Office 2013 in Wine? It’d the best version of office IMHO.
No idea, that one has the boring word art
Love your criteria
Some people can’t because they need updated proofing tools and that version no longer has updates.
word art > proofing tools
For existing customers, the price hike won’t be kicking in until plan renewal, and there are options to downgrade the plan. Those who want to avoid using AI can downgrade the plan to the “Classic” or “Basic” Microsoft 365 plans.
Thankfully we can roll back to the “Classic Family Plan” without the AI features. But annoying that they automatically switched plans and I had to switch back. If I didn’t see this article I’d be up for a big price hike when it renewed.
But annoying that they automatically switched plans and I had to switch back.
Should be illegal.
Everyone experiencing this should be thinking “man, I gotta ditch Microsoft before they try to fuck me again”
NO one using Microsoft is doing so by choice. If we haven’t learned in 30 years, then fuck us.
Their office suite is still the winner.
Not really. Office software has reached diminishing returns over a decade ago.
Nah, it’s all hinges on Excel. It’s still unbeatable at this point.
Absolutely. This has made me acutely aware that my days with MS are numbered.
Subscriptions like these have always been a scam.
Oh shit maybe we’ll see someone companies switch to an alternative instead of paying microshit more money
Yeah. So it’s
- thunderbird
- some add-on
right? I forget the name of that add-on.
No, that’s not it. I thought it was Open-Xchange; yeah, that’s it. But it’s only web-based, and not Tbird-based. Let’s ask Co-pilot again:
THERE it is.
But I learned there’s a second alternative, so that’s cool. See? Co-pilot has value!
Zentyal replaces windows server. It has active directory, file server, print server, domain controller and mail server, all in a way compatible with Microsofts products, but it’s Linux. I worked with it many years ago and it did what it says on the tin. I haven’t worked with newer versions.
In this case the AI is kinda wrong. It’s not a Thunderbird replacement in any way, rather an OWA replacement and Exchange alternative. You could use Thunderbird to connect to it probably.
What you could use is the Thunderbird extension TbSync, or Owl. Both work, but TbSync is free.
Like using Edge to download Firefox, I approve
is there a thunderbird equivalent that looks like it was made after 1992?
This is for the personal licenses, not business or enterprise.
wack
I keep seeing posts by NextCloud on Mastodon. Has anyone had any experience using those guys?
Nextcloud is decent but it depends on what you want. Personally, I’d never use it again due to performance reasons but it’s a decent platform for cloud editing and stuff.
I switched to Syncthing for file management across my devices. With it, I can sync my Joplin notes. It’s all I need in life. It was also easier to set up than a Nextcloud instance.
nextcloud is awesome, highly recommend.
the only problem with onlyoffice is that it’s electron.
Ew
https://forum.onlyoffice.com/t/why-does-it-contain-a-web-browser/8250/3
Chromium embedded framework, not electron. Similar concept, though.
Ehh, I’m fairly sure it’s not. It certainly wasn’t in the past. When do you believe that changed?Never mind, you were talking about OO, not LO, my bad.
Are you positive?
No, they’re negative.
So Libre Office is free?
If it does what regular office suit does i would happily pay 300 dollars for it to have it as mine and not be fucked with
Is this your first exposure to FOSS? If so, you are in for a treat. There’s a whole world of free, open source software out there for you to enjoy.
Yeah, it’s 100% free.
Free forever, and works great.
Free and open source, but if you’re willing to pay, you could donate to the project.
I need to try onlyoffice again. The last time I tried, was the original beta, and it was faulty (being a first release beta, and all)
Oh onlyoffice works great! It’s spreadsheet function is far less buggy than excel and it’s smooth and snappy.
Sweet! I’ve been using MS at work (required) and Libre at home (because screw MS). I’ll give Only another go!
OnlyOffice spreadsheet has less functionality than Excel but unless you are a super power user then it’s not a problem.
Onlyoffice is apparently Russian, headquartered in Latvia.
Latvia is not Russia, unless something recently changed
JFC it can be russian owned and russian controlled and russian employed and pay russian taxes while “headquartered” in Latvia.
Latvia is not Russia
Yet.
And if you look on a Russian map, I’m sure it’s there already.
What? Latvia is a part of NATO.
what does it even mean to be russian then?
You know, almost entirely staffed by Russians (outside of Latvia), the executive suite is Russian, shareholders are Russian, etc.
Like have you guys never heard of companies being “headquartered” in the Cayman Islands?
Sure, now why would that be a factor for choosing a software or not.
You didn’t choose the country you were born in anymore than they did.
Seriously?
yes, very much
if your only argument is the nationality of the people involved, it’s a bad one.
If you haven’t noticed there’s a war going on. This is the weirdest conversation I’ve had, at best you’re playing the fool. I’m out.
I’ve had nothing but issues administrating Office 365. A price hike like this is incentivizing me to push other products like Google workspace.
Nice parts are definitely user email tools and some of the audit tools, but I keep finding myself in scenarios where I get error 500s on the server side when I pop open dev tools and it’s like I don’t want to tell my users that they’re SOL but they sort of are if I can’t resolve some error on Microsoft’s o365 servers. Microsoft likes to ask what I did to fix the case if I fix it before they do and I just laugh and not rely to those. They can pay me extra for that or hire me if they want that info.
