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ah, classic hangup. you’re looking for Debian with KDE
No no, don’t use KDE…
/s
link dead
I tried to encourage fellow Linux users to just encourage one distro. It doesn’t have to be a good distro, but just one the person is least likely to run into issues with and if they do, the most likely to be able to find solutions easily for their issues. Things like Ubuntu and Mint clearly fit the bill. They can then decide later if they want to change to a different one based on what they learn from using that one.
No one listened to me, because everyone wants to recommend their personal favorite distro rather than what would lead to the least problems for the user and would be the easiest to use. A person who loves PopOS will insist the person must use PopOS. A person who loves Manjaro will insist that the person must use Manjaro. Linux users like so many different distros that this just means everyone recommends something different and just make it confusing.
I gave up even bothering after awhile. Linux will never be big on desktop unless some corporation pushes a Linux-based desktop OS.
Valve is working on it, just need them to have a public build of steam os
People need to put their egos aside and recommend a distro suited to a soft landing for a new person. That includes knowing that person’s technical skill and who around them will help when real issues pop up that require hand-holding and not just “Well, there’s a forum and you ask there.”
IMO that’s Mint, but I also haven’t found a distro that has tempted me away from Mint, either.
I always recommend Mint. I’m neither particularly fond of KDE nor do I personally use Debian / Ubuntu any more, but I still think it’s a great “beginner” distro.
I use Nobara, which is Fedora-based, and I think it’s great for gaming, but I’m not sure support for it is thorough enough for people who can’t confidently wade into configs.
Mint doesn’t use KDE out of the box. They have an own DE called Cinnamon.
Good shout! I vaguely remembered “not Gnome” (or at least not the Gnome I’m used to) and my mind went straight to KDE. I’ll fix that.
Ah, I thought you mixed them up, because they both look Windows-y in their default configuration. 🙃
Them looking Windows-y is why I recommend either as a “first Linux DE”. Thanks for pointing out the error!
Linux will never be big on desktop unless some corporation pushes a Linux-based desktop OS.
And of all possible companies, Valve is the one that’s made the most progress with this.
Gnome with dash to panel is what everyone uses. And fedora
My general guidelines would be: Gnome if you’re used to Android, KDE if you’re used to Windows, Cinnamon if you’re used to MacOS, XFCE if your PC is a potato.
But I like xfce… :'(
JFCLM
Just Fucking Choose Linux Mint.
lol no. Completely failed to run 90% of my games and had audio popping no matter what I did with pulsewire or whatever. If a noob encounters that they’re never using Linux again.
how long ago was that? what GPU? what kernel version?
is something odd
It was 6 months ago when I finally switched to Linux. I tested several distros. Zorin and Mint both had numerous, numerous problems.
Nvidia 3080. No clue what kernel version, just installed the default from the website (full install, not a live image).
hmmmm, back then mint did have quite an old kernel, but you could update it to a newer version trough the update manager, but now is not a problem beacuse in the new releases of LM 22 and LMDE 7, they ship with a fresh kernel.
Six months ago??? People were saying to use mint back then too, like every thread. I understand it’s completely based on your hardware but you can understand how it’s hard to trust anyone saying mint right? On the other hand CachyOS and Garuda both work really hard to make sure every hardware config works properly.
If you have recent hardware mint is not a good choice. Otherwise yes.
This is not true anymore.
mint doesnt even offer kde, i dont see the point.
KDE’s still available in mint. They don’t strip it out of the repos. Just one install command away …
sudo apt install kde-fullright? (or clicky clicky through the gui package manager).You can absolutely do that.
But do be careful with
kde-fullif you’re running very old hardware. I’m talking about <4gb DDR3, CPUs from Obama’s first term etc.I’m not saying KDE’s “bloated”; I am still in absolute shock at how light it is compared to Windows.
But if you are dealing with hardware that needs a daily lethal dose of donepezil, opt for
kde-standard(Difficult lesson I learned)
still in absolute shock at how light it is compared to Windows
KDE’s still the bloatiest we have though.
Would be nice if Trinity (KDE3) were still ubiquitously available across all distros’ repos.
Or I suppose we could just strip alllll the bloat, and use something like IceWM for a classic “Windows” feel. (Or LXDE. XFCE (bit bloatier), or any of a dozen(+) other DE/WM following that model (panel & startmenu)).
cant use gnome after realizing all the terrible usability choices/lack of customizability options is deliberate, people really will powertrip/gatekeep the weirdest shit
I think Zorin OS did a really good job at customizing Gnome to make it the way it should have been. As for limiting customizeability, I don’t think that’s necessarily bad. Sometimes I get overwhelmed by KDE’s customization options. Vanilla Gnome has too little. Zorin’s desktop is just right.
But that’s my opinion.
yeah i dont hate gnome users or even if i have to use gnome, but i do hate the conceptual approach to functionality they take, as you mention.
Cinnamon >>>>>>> KDE, you can install KDE regardless, but cinnamon is plainly better IMO.
Why is it better? KDE has more features and first-class Wayland support. If I wanted an X11 DE, I would choose XFCE because of its general clean code and performance.
it comes to personal preference i guess, but i find KDE clunky at times and not that ergonomic, even when you customize it a bit, like adding centre spaces to put things in the panels.
Cinnamon feels polished and relatively simple while still being highly customizable.
wdym by ergonomic in this context, may i ask?
you get to develop muscle memory faster, configurations are easier to find, and things start simple and become complex when you need them to get complex instead of always be kinda complex.
Also, I hate dolphin, it is quite bad, you can’t open files with sudo directly, you have to navigate trough various menus to find the button for that, is also harder to read IMO.
i think i explained it poorly, but i mean you get the hang of things faster, and usually stuff is where is more convenient for for them to be.
I don’t hate KDE, if Cinnamon wasn’t a thing, i would go for it, but as things stands now, I prefer cinnamon.
hey right on, appreciate the thoughtful reply. i cant say i share the same experience, but now i understand where youre coming from.
side note, im new(ish) to lemmy and im really appreciating the quality of the takes im seeing on here. refreshing feeling, so cheers to adding to that.
You’re not wrong. I think there’s definitely room for some improvements.
And sometimes too many customizations can become confusing. I tend to keep everything vanilla to avoid things breaking, except for a few things. I installed a Win 10 theme and even a Win 10 style Tile start menu because I love the concept so much.
I know it’s controversial in a Linux community, but I absolutely LOVED the Windows 10 ergonomics. Square, flat, predictable, and your eyes can quickly pick up the necessary information and you can navigate faster with a mouse. Plus with the Powertoys that added the fancy zones feature, that was perfect. I get all of this in KDE.
is reasonable to say, that W10, specially years ago, was one of the good windows, specially with a debloater.
there were a lot of shit in the middle but yeah, Cinnamon feels like “what if the windows desktop was made with love and passion”.
They can try Kubuntu (or whatever) live whenever they’re ready. Beginners just need something that works with minimal configuration.
kubuntu is trash. you have to wait forever for kde updates and not everyone wants to use ubuntu / derivatives. it just seems like everyone is so stubborn and just says mint. tons of distros “just work” out of the box with minimal configuration, even some based on arch.
really i only have one opinion here that im strong on, and its that i feel cinnamon is a waste of time for many.
kubuntu is trash
That’s like… your opinion, man.
true
If you know what KDE is you can make an informed choice. Mint is the recommendation for people who just want something easy to get started with.
this touches on my point exactly. i find that due to the “over recommendation” of mint/cinnamon, that many new people will inevitably “waste time” with cinnamon. this is a feeling i have that frustrates me, is all. KDE is exactly as easy to get started with as is cinnamon.
anyway cheers :)
Exactly. I never see people actually liking Cinnamon as a DE, but everyone keeps recommending Mint. It’s so frustrating, and perplexing.
If Mint would just treat KDE as first class like it used to, I would be inclined to recommend it more often. Not as often as Fedora KDE — which has always seemed to have the best hardware support of all major distros — but at least I wouldn’t feel the need to fight people for recommending Mint to new users. Blindly recommending something as clunky and outdated as Mint and Cinnamon to new Windows expats is a great way to earn Linux a bad reputation just as things are looking up.
quite refreshing to get some support on this opinion. cheers
Bazzite is good now and you don’t have to spend hours trying to install Nvidia drivers
in linux mint there is a buton, that says “driver installer” you press on it, select what version (choose the recommended one) then press install.
I did not know that! I was thinking about my issues on Debian and assumed Mint had a similar process
if you use LMDE is still a bit easier because the sources are already added, “sudo apt install nvidia-driver” and then use the envy control program to configure it properly.
Nah. I’m a gamer and need something with more up to date packages. I can’t rely on Debian / Ubuntu base.
Fedora and Arch base are my go to.
I’m using Kubuntu LTS and I’m gaming just fine.
I’ve been gaming on Debian (granted, with the backports kernel). What am I missing? Everything works and I’ve had zero issues.
Debian and Ubuntu get packages and kernels upwards of 6 months late. If you run newer hardware, you need the most up to date drivers/kernel. Fedora and Arch just offer more bleeding/cutting edge releases.
I use Kubuntu with the backports ppa
Yep, been gaming on Ubuntu for decades. Zero issue. Occasionally have to do a thing, but it’s Linux, so you know; everything is always do able.
maybe youve always been using 2 year or older hardware *shrug
Or maybe I just run the mainline kernel in the cases I need it.
The present-day Linux kernel tree (not the Debian guys) actually has a target to build a Debian kernel package (
make bindeb-pkg) straight out of git if you want, so you can pretty readily get a packaged kernel out of the Linux kernel git repo, as long as you can come up with a viable build config for it (probably starting from a recent Debian kernel’s config). I have run off Debian-packaged kernels built that way before, if you want to play on the really bleeding edge.
If you know what you want then you’re not the person depicted in this comic.
I’m a gamer too and i’m not sure what is about that, everything seems fine on the 6.12 kernel LMDE is on.
Ditto. Also a gamer on Linux Mint and never once had a problem.
bazzite?
I used Bazzite for a bit and I like the direction of the project. I’m still not happy with where Flatpak is and so I switched to CachyOS for now.
do you want swap?
Multiple partitions or single. LLVM-managed or not. Block-level encrypted partitions or not. Do you want your swap on a dedicated partition, as a swap file, and do you want it to be encrypted?
If you decide that you want a multiple-partition installation and then let the installer do the partitioning, Debian’s installer still does a 100 MB
/bootpartition, which is woefully inadequate for present-day kernels as Debian packages them. 1 GB, maybe.
Same thing with Fediverse instances.
IMO the linux and/or fediverse community could learn a thing or two about UX from the establishment.
IMO the best approach is to take note of the Pareto Principle: 20% of instances / distros would meet the need of 80% of users.
I would simply just recommend Ubuntu / lemmy.world to complete beginners just based on market share. If they are interested in alternatives, they would naturally seek those out themselves.
This concept is nothing new e.g. Google presents their searchbar front and centre; power users would click on “Advance Search” for their needs.
If someone were to recommend me a distro with the GNOME desktop environment then I would not be a Linux for long. GNOME is weird and confusing. I am convinced that KDE Plasma, Cinnamon, LXDE and other more Windows-like desktops is better for a new Linux user. If they want an alternative desktop environment they can seek it out themselves.
a distro with the GNOME desktop environment
We would have lost a newbie by the end of this line.
I don’t think we are representative of the average user. For example, none of my family heard of these terms, or even care. They just want to browse the web, watch some Youtube videos, and that’s it.
That why they shouldn’t be recommended anything that has to do with GNOME. Just give them anything that closely resembles Windows.
I installed Linux Mint on my mom’s old laptop and on my stepmother’s aunt’s laptop as well. I have had 0 support calls since then! As you say, all they want to do is browse the web.
I started mainlining Linux about a year and a half ago after playing with it for a bit in 2007-ish and running a headless server for a decade or so.
I just installed Ubuntu because that was what Framework officially supported. I can’t think of what a newbie user would find lacking with Ubuntu. It does about everything that Windows does fine. I’ve heard similar things about Mint. Why do we have to over-complicate things for new users? Just shove them towards a distro and let them know they can probably fix whatever they don’t like with a reinstall later.
Proceeds to use it exclusively for browsing the web.
Exactly 69 upvotes - as it should be.:-P
what’s with the weird white lines in the image?
AI generated. I subconsciously noticed them from the generic artstyle, but I wanted to believe it wasn’t slop until I saw the comments. Probably stolen from cyanide and happiness artstyle.
Like others pointed out, the laptop ports keep changing, Red shirt guy has weird faint patterns going on, and the text in the scroll bar boxes doesn’t line up right.
good to know, I saw the ports too but I couldn’t definitively prove that it’s AI
is the weird white line thing a common feature of slop? I think it might be the first time I’ve recognised it
actually it seems like everything else posted by op is also slop, another user in my blocklist ig
Just pick the yummiest option each time.
Mint.
Cinnamon.
That adds the “which windowing system do you want to use” question and under the “Xorg” option, a “do you want to use a window manager without a desktop environment”, and then under “yes”, for the “Which window manager” question, you get Ratpoison as one of the options.
LOL!
Imagine a new user confronted with ratpoison wm. XD XD XD
Computer defenestration ensues. XD
sure its fine and will do. but …millions of people waste time on cinnamon bc of this logic.
How many are there?
It depends.
See, that’s not helpful. The right answer is to direct someone to this GitHub project:
https://github.com/FabioLolix/LinuxTimeline
The releases page contains a 3420x12488 PNG to provide a simple and concise answer.
I see the one I like! :-)
“Simple and concise”
i am not religious, but oh god…
I can see my OS from here!
I always assumed webOS was Linux but I expected it to be a fork of Debian
WebOS was made by Palm Inc., one of the earliest and quite successful manufacturer of ‘personal digital assistant’ devices, aka smartphones without the phone part (and later with that too). They originally developed and licensed their own OS, PalmOS, but needed an upgrade for multitasking and such. webOS was thus intended for those PDA devices, and Debian would of course be a ridiculous choice for the task.
I have warm memories of PalmOS: i was snappy as heck with the 16 MHz CPU, but that’s largely because of the ‘single-tasking’ and quite limited app functionality.
That picture is also hosted on Wikimedia:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1b/Linux_Distribution_Timeline.svg
Edit: just pasting the link now, making it into an embedded picture lagged and crashed voyager??
Doesn’t even have CachyOS. Smh
If you know how to edit a comma-separated-value text file and how to submit a PR on GitHub, you could make the image larger.
I just have to assume you’re a troll at this point. That graphic is not helpful at all to anyone except those that care about the history of Linux. For everyone else it’s useless. I was making a joke about how one of the distros I use isn’t on there. I don’t know the history of my distro and honestly do not care. Any noob also would not care.
There are a few gaps. Seems it’s not being as diligently updated as once was.
There are even some old distros I failed to find on it.
… Didn’t there used to be a text-searchable svg version of it?
Idk. I was making a joke though. A history of Linux chart is functionally useless for actually choosing a distro.
A history of Linux chart is functionally useless for actually choosing a distro.
I’ve used that many times to help me go distro surfing. Very handy for discovery.
For a new person it’s useless. For anyone distro surfing why wouldn’t you just use distro Watch?
For a new person it’s useless. For anyone distro surfing why wouldn’t you just use distro Watch?
I disagree. Not useless. Shows the lineage of distros. Facilitates broader awareness. Handy education. Very well accompanies the likes of distrowatch, at a long glance showing the forest past being lost in the trees and slowly trying to work it out. Expedites the new (or soon to be) user to better know their way around, and perhaps help them go towards whichever branch they prefer or away from any they garner a dislike for, saving time. See past the whataboutism false-dichotomy? Why not both?
Huh? A new user is going to have trouble understanding the base difference between gnome and kde. Flooding them with information about the history of all these operating systems will do nothing except to scare them off even more.
I love Lemmy. I hate AI posters.
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Worst when the newcomers chose Arch because they’ve heard is very configurable.
Then complain that Linux is hard.
see heres the problem, youre doing that in the wrong order.
first figure out your DE/WM preference, THEN choose a package manager with the repos that will best support that for your use case and update cycle preferences. (the distro)
Choose a distro that supports upgrades between releases.
It depends.
ok true
