Yes, the post-Communist government tried to discredit the socialist system,

So everyone lies, historians, facts, logic, government, everyone. And soviets did not attack Poland, and did not try genocide? Seems legit :D

Incorrect.

Ok, wait, so since Poland and nazi germany signed the pact, this means that we don’t know who attacked Poland? XD And then who attack Poland two weeks later, if Soviets also had this pact with Poland. Interesting…

1931 is a more accurate starting date, Dude…

Soviet Union, who waited 2 weeks, prevented the Nazis

So the polish army will be massacred, so there no one will resist that much. Soviet union attacking Poland, and doing what they agreed with Nazis in the Ribbentrop-Molotov pact is not a surprise to any historian.

Historians don’t actually

Yes, let us keep ignoring fact, that poles were arrested by soviets, and then nazis found them dead, in a mass graves, on territory occupied by Soviets for a long time before nazis were there. But let’s play it according to your vision. So somehow nazis were able to hijack thousands of people arrested by soviets, then kill them, and then go back to nazi germany?

repeating Nazi propaganda as fash

Which part of nazi propaganda? About facts, that Nazis and Soviets had agreement in Ribbentrop-Molotov pack, and this was not only about non-aggression but also about attacking together Poland, and splitting it between both sides?

https://eng.ipn.gov.pl/en/news/3921%2CKatyn-Massacre-Basic-Facts.html

I think that official documents published by russian government are also fake according to you?

https://eng.ipn.gov.pl/en/news/3924,Soviet-Politburo-order-for-the-NKVD-to-murder-Polish-Pows-and-Detainees.html

Can you explain?

Russia, that is a far right wing authoritarian regime, blowing up tanks used by Ukraine to defend themself from Russian invasion. What this have to do with communism?

I don’t know my comments were deleted.

Especially that only official facts, and statement from RUSSIAN government was quoted.

Let me put it here again:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/nov/26/russian-parliament-guilt-katyn-massacre

The west was non-commital and refused to make an anti-Nazi alliance with the soviets,

Not true, more and more western countries were anti nazi.

the west would help the Nazis if the USSR attacked first

Nazis started the war, on the first september. That’s the fact. A lot of western countries had pact with Poland, and protested against the aggression. Then two weeks later Soviet Union attacked Poland. This is also fact. Soviet union started war with Poland on 17 September.

This is cope.

So, official statement from russian government and historians is cope? Dude. And how it was possible, that thousands of people arrested by Soviet union somehow would be killed by nazis?

an anti-communist

You know that there are so many options. Even in the east block, there were communists that were not supporting Stalin? So anyone who isn’t ok with what stalin did, is a fach? Dude…

You’re getting called fash because you’re using fascist talking points regarding the soviets.

Elaborate. Where are the facts about attack on Poland are fash? Especially, that soviets worked together with nazis on that attack?

The communists spent the decade

I never said that this didn’t happened. Also you might know, that Poland tried to do the same thing, and that’s why Nazi germany wanted to sign non aggression pact in 1934. Poland wanted to attack nazis in 1933.

Soviets reluctantly agreed to sign a non-agression pact, in order to delay the coming war that everyone knew was happening soon.

And what this have to do with soviet attack on Poland two weeks after nazi attack? When Poland was still fighting and had chance to win (if more countries would help)?

Harry Truman, in 1941 in front of the Senate, stated:

This is after nazis attack soviet union. WW2 started in 1939. Soviets did nothing to nazi occupation on Poland, they helped nazi to dismantle polish army, and also soviets did Katyn Genocide. Why Soviets did nothing when war is already ruining europe for two years?

Not only that,

Howaboutism. What this have to do with soviet genocide on polish nation?

Katyn gets pinned on the Soviets

Katyn gencoide was already admitted many times by the russian government, historians, and so on.

When the USSR went into Poland,

When the ussr ATTACKED Poland

it stayed mostly to areas Poland

It attacked mostly areas that were occupied by russia for decades in the past.

Should the Soviets have let Poland get entirely taken over by the Nazis,

They could attack nazis. But they decided to not only attack Poland, polish army, but also commit genocide, and then pretend that’s ok. Soviets could attack nazis and stop the war. They decided to attack Poland, and leave nazis alone. Sad.

Calling it “genocide” while Nazi-occupied Poland was subject

Yes, nazis also did genocide. Mostly focused on jews and other minorities. But why one genocide is explanation for other one?

There’s mountains

No, there are not. Everyone agrees that soviets are responsible for Katyn. Also russian historians, government, and everyone else agrees.

Everyone agrees that soviets did it. There is no other way. Sorry, but you don’t have any evidence, and pretending that some soviets documents might not be real, does not change the facts. Genocide did on a soviet soil, on the people arrested by soviets. A lot of letters and so on were found, and we know that soviets did it.

Again, the reason you’re getting called fascist

I’m facist because I’m saying the same thing as russian historians, and government, stating that russia attacked Poland in 1939, and then soviets are responsible for Katyn?

No they signed a non-aggression pact

DUDE, Soviet army literally attacked Poland on 17 September 1939. So two weeks after nazi attack. When Poland was still fighting. Almost half of Poland was still free from nazis. And soviets were not fighting against nazis, Then had agreement with nazi how to split Poland. Nazis attacked Soviet union two years later.

Less than year later, soviets made decision to start genocide, killing thousands of polish intellectuals, officers, key people for polish culture.

In the same time, Nazis were doing the same thing in their death camps.

80 years ago, on March 5, 1940, a decision was made at the highest level of the Soviet authorities, from which the NKVD murdered nearly 22 thousand Polish citizens. Among them were prisoners of camps in Kozielsk, Starobielsk, and Ostashkow, captured after Soviet Union’s aggression on Poland, and people in NKVD prisons in the USSR-occupied eastern parts of Poland. The fallen constituted the nation’s elite; its defensive, intellectual, and creative potential. Murdering them was an attack on ‘Polishness’ and the Polish nation; aimed to prevent a sovereign Polish state from being rebuilt.

https://warsawinstitute.org/katyn-massacre-mechanisms-genocide/

Then, almost two years later, nazis attacked soviet union.

so the soviets rushed in to prevent land that was historically part of their territory

And this is another lie. First of all Poland was still fighting. Also, these land was not a part of russian empire. Poland for many years was occupied by other countries, this was result of polish partition done by elites, church, russian tsar. In was called Targowitca confederation.

Belorussians and Ukrainians from being occupied by the Nazis.

You’re saying that before 1941 nazis also occupied Ukraine? Can you help me explaining which Ukrainian territory was not occupied by soviets but nazis before nazi attack on Soviet Union?

https://cdn.thecollector.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/11/ww2-1941-map-large.jpg

Idiots like you would be going on about how stupid and evil the soviets

Can you explain Katyn Genocide? Remember, russia long time ago admits that this was done by soviet union:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/nov/26/russian-parliament-guilt-katyn-massacre

You want sources for what? That russia is ruled by the same group of people for many years, that oligarch are in charge of the country? XD

Or do you want source that Putin was in the KGB?

Dude, you also want evidences and sources for the fact that water in a room temperature is wet?

Eventually Putin realized he would not be allowed “at the table” with US/NATO/EU.

Russia had it chance. But russia and post KGB agents decided to pump more money in oligarchs, and create authoritarian regime. This is the problem with russia.

Putin is a western puppet?

Just because soviet empire failed due to giving all the power to a small group of people, and after decades people become corrupted and ruined their own country, doesn’t mean that that only USA is bad.

Look for example what China is doing to the minorities, look what Russia did to the Chechnya, then read how many very very bad things are going on in the Africa.

USA ist just the most stable. Of course it’s imperialistic country, and they are responsible for very very bad things. USA is ruled by oligarch like Russia. The only reasons USA and west are in a way better situation, is because they were supporting human rights, they taxed oligarchs and created middle class. Right now in the USA they are backing up from that, they are replacing human rights and middle class with religion and nationalism, so they are more and more like russia. But with a better army, better budget, better intelligence, and better economy.

How this gonna end, i don’t know. Maybe revolution in the USA, that would be nice, also revolution in Russia would be nice, especially that Russia has very very big problem with oligarchs and exploitation of regular people.

They were turned down and upon realising they were on their own

And that’s way they signed Ribbentrop-Molotov pact, and then together with Nazis, they attacked Poland?

Nice strategy.

But to be honest, what are the alternatives. Taiwa has the same problem as Poland, and many other countries with additional “value” like localization or natural resources.

Taiwan don’t like China, and for sure don’t want to be a part of Russian and China empire. Alternative is not very good, being part of American empire is also not that great. But people of Taiwan know that China will not threat them as good as west.

Poland at least can be a part of UE, and that helped us a loft after collapse of east block.

But this is what you’re using.

It’s easy to see that during the cold war, we had east and west empires in a cold war.

Nowadays we have more powers, like UE, USA, BRICS, Japan and so on. But situation is still the same. We have big alliances that want more (i.e. USA attack on Venezuela or Russian attack on Ukraine, and way more of this in Africa and middle east).

It’s funny how you have skipped western empires.

It’s not like Poland want to attack Nazi Germany in 1933, but no one wanted to join…

Yes, east europe have problem with neonazis. There are so many pictures, news and so on prepared by antifa groups and independent journalists, that’s everyone knows that.

Especially post east block countries have this problem. Russia, Ukraine, Slovakia and so on. In Poland we have some issues, but due to the fact, that so many polish citizens were killed, and death camps were build on polish ground, it’s kinda sad to be neonazi. But still, there are plenty of neonazis.

Neonazi in Rusia:

https://informnapalm.org/en/russian-neo-nazis-in-the-ranks-of-wagner-pmc/

https://romea.cz/en/world/speaking-of-nazis-the-donetsk-leader-of-pro-russian-separatists-honored-a-russian-soldier-with-nazi-symbols-on-his-uniform

Neonazi marching in Slovakia: https://romea.cz/en/world/slovakia-mps-mayor-of-bratislava-unable-to-block-neo-nazi-march

In Ukraine it’s the same story.

We can do it all day. Europe have big problem with neonazis, a lot of these groups are founded by very rich oligarch, and state, very often by other state that want’s to destabilize the country.

It has always been this way. Historically, Western and Eastern empires tended to confront one another only in distant regions, often in Africa or other far‑removed territories. Today, however, these dynamics have shifted. The West started conflict in Venezuela, and a few years earlier the East initiated war in Ukraine.

It seems likely that further tensions may emerge.

Preventing it from being occupied by the Nazis is more help than letting it be occupied by Nazis.

Like there was no other option, like, hmmm, helping Poland fight nazis, and winning the war at the beginning?

Oh so now you agree with me.

I was always anti russian government. Current imperialistic russia is a enemy of post east block countries.

The soviets did help Poland.

Dude, have you read what i posted? Genocide, and the occupation is not help.

Also why should we trust capitalist Russia who distanced themselves from communism and everything Stalin did?

I don’t think that we should trust russia. Current right wing government is antiworker, homophobic, and very oligarchic. Russia needs some kind of revolution, russians need to do revolution again.

Dude, you’re started this discussion, you asked me before about arguments and facts. And here we’re now. Now you know why Poland, and other post east blocks, don’t want to be a part of new russian empire, and why we like to be a part of UE.

Why you don’t want to answer my question regarding soviet attack on Poland, and Katyn genocide?

C’mon.

Why are you calling me fash? I’m here because i like lemmy, and i like freedom, respect for the workers, for minorities, I’m anti authoritarian, and anti nationalist.

BTW nice that mods are banning me every time i’m posting some facts.

I just asked a question about soviet invasion on Poland on 17 september 1939. So when Poland was still fighting against nazis, and only half of the country was under nazi occupation.

If soviets helped Poland, and only attack nazis, war could stop in a few months. Instead soviets decided to attack polish forces.

Few months later soviets arrested and transported thousands of polish intellectuals, officers, professors, etc, to Katyn. What happened then?

All of them were murdered. This was a big hit in a polish culture, science, and knowledge. By killing intellectuals, professors etc, polish culture were targeted, and that’s why this was the genocide.

In 2010 russian admits that soviet forces did it: https://warsawinstitute.org/katyn-massacre-mechanisms-genocide/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/nov/26/russian-parliament-guilt-katyn-massacre

And that’s one of many reasons, why we don’t line russia, we don’t like soviet union, and we don’t want to be an ally to any of them (especially now when russia is a far right wing nationalist authoritarian regime). This post also gonna be removed?