Oh look, another .ml idiot.
You actually said this comment to a mirror
Therefore, you’re the idiot
Hi again, what did they say? Some lib bs?
as always :3
:3
Classic
What’s idiotic about Marxism?
The implementation
?
What fools
Correlation isn’t causation
Yes, the causation was the dramatic expansion of safety nets, improved agriculture, land reform, poverty reduction, and more. The proof of effectiveness is in the graph.
It has to be when it’s supporting my argument! Let’s disregard all the years of war, it must be the Marxism!
But when people die under communism beaucouse there was a world war and the land was totally destroyed, it’s certainly that ugly communism in it?
Yeah man i guess they just suddenly found the fountain of youth. Nothing is causation actually, cause and effect is a myth sold to us by Big Causality so we buy more notebooks
Did you make it beyond high school?
Snide vagueposting to cover for having been schooled with data. Sad!
You’re on .ml, dipshit
Revolutions stand or fall with public support. Voting is the most visible way to establish public sentiment. People like to quote that only a third of the US actually elected Trump, but do we have a clear idea of just how many oppose him, if so many voters apparently never expressed their opinion in any measurable way?
Doing nothing and complaining on the internet is useless. Doing something is scary. If you knew you had your community at your back, wouldn’t you feel more confident to step up?
You’re right that people need to know that voting won’t be enough, but it’s still important in order to communicate the public opinion that separates a revolution from a coup.
Even along with public support, revolutions need their violent wing. MLK wouldn’t have been as nearly successful without the Black Panthers visibly totin’ guns on the 5 O’Clock news. It made MLK look very reasonable to deal with.
Gandhi, the modern Icon of peaceful protest winning the day, had armed rebellions popping up behind him. The Indian’s had nearly a 100 year history of violence against the British. And an exhausted Great Britain just wanting to get out of the colonial business didn’t hurt either.
When facing despots and fascists, there needs to be people willing to kill and die for the cause of freedom. We have not reached that point yet.
Agreed on all points. It’s kinda like a robbery – you probably won’t arbitrarily hand a random stranger your wallet, but if they point a knife, things look different.
Though in this case, it’s the robber barons getting mugged by their victims.
This is absolutely the correct answer. Successful revolutions are always multilateral in their approach.
That is indeed a good argument for voting, but voting third party
Depending on the stakes, yes. It is categorically better than not voting at all.
There is still the spoiler effect to consider, which may make voting third party a worse strategy in the complex, blind game that elections are. In elections where that isn’t as big of a risk, it’s a good way to indicate dissatisfaction with the status quo and the parties on offer. If there is a particularly convincing third party that many agree on, it also communicates what people do want.
In presidential elections, in a country where the president already had so much power even before this whole shitshow, when one candidate is a much greater threat to the basic feasability of resistance, it’s a dangerous gamble, risking much for a fairly slim chance at an all-or-nothing victory.
FPTP is one of the many things that are fucked up, but not every election has that kind of impact, and particularly if you’re in states where one party is so dominant that the spoiler effect is negligible anyways, it may be the more valuable choice.
so voting AND revolution are both good
The success of diplomacy and peaceful protest hinges on the existence of a credible threat that the alternative (war and riots, respectively) will be worse. Even if a (mostly) peaceful solution should be found, I suspect there will have to be some measure of violence to get that point across.
As others point out, the elites won’t go down quietly, and as long as there are bootlicks willing to fight on their behalf, they’ll rather let their bootlicks die than make concessions.
So while I don’t think violent revolutions are good for their own sake, they may be a necessary evil for good ends.
what about peaceful revolutions (as long as they DON’T even escalate)?
I know of no revolutions that didnt use force or the credible threat of force, because the ruling class would always rather escalate than voluntarily give up their power.
If, for whatever reason, the police collectively decides to no longer enforce the commands of those in power and no other group steps up to violently defend the status quo, a peaceful revolution in the form of civil disobedience would be conceivable.
Getting to that point without some measure of violence is what I believe to be unlikely – not impossible, mind you, and I very much hope for it, but it’s quite likely that an attempt to create such a consensus would (at least initially) be violently suppressed just as violent resistance would.
Even if it is achieved, the new society will need to guard itself against opportunistic egoists seeking to exploit the new power vacuum. Here too there may be at least an initial period of violence until that new dynamic is clear.
As long as there are people willing to hurt others for their own benefit, they will have to be fought.
But we should try to fight as little as possible.
Anti democracy post?
Oh, from a .ml poster, of course.
You’re on .ml, you absolute loser
Hey sorry, what did they say?
Usual substanceless “heh, you are from this instance, need i say more?”
Ah
Oop, brain dead ml poster forgets the all feed exists.
So block .ml and stop whining already.
Democracy is when you are generously allowed to choose between genocide and genocide
Chile actually voted out their dictator.
They’re only allowed to be voted out after they establish the rules of the game lmao. Military dictators are just puppets of capital used to organize society with force and when capital is happy with it they just move on from them. It’s absurd to think they were voted out lmao. Every single liberal democracy that evolved from a military dictatorship still uses the constitution written by the dictators, i.e. Spain.
then what happened
So did Brazil, and they actually threw theirs in prison.
No, Bolsonaro was not a dictator; if he had been, we wouldn’t have been able to remove him. He had far less power than he thought; that’s why voting worked.
I would argue the same is true of Trump. It certainly was in his first term. This term has all the aesthetics of authoritarianism, but he is failing to consolidate power, which is kind of pathetic considering how much power in the US was ready to surrender on day one.
Same as most Eastern Block countries. Except Romania, they chose other ways.
Is this not also true for liberals who aren’t white?
yes. i did not create this image
I think the point of the words inclusion is that you might have a very different perspective of the implications and effectiveness of voting when the state doesn’t explicitly cater to your identity as the default.
Or bearded. You can be a clean shaven, tan, even a woman and the meme still works.
No you gotta do it harder.
-idk blue maga probably
Here’s the thing:
I didn’t believe for a second that a Kamala victory would have crushed fascism forever.
In fact, I’m positive the GOP would place Trump’s cold corpse as their nominee in all future elections if they had to.
The problem is simple:
Fascists are in power right now.
They wouldn’t be in nearly as much power if Kamala had won
Because the fascists are in power, its exceedingly unlikely we’ll ever have a fair election again with this government
That wouldn’t be nearly as likely to be the case if Kamala had won.
Furthermore, I’m tired of white leftists screaming for revolution while they themselves know damn good and well they’d never fight in one themselves, and they wouldn’t suffer even close to as much as racial, sexual and gender minorities will in resisting fascism.
The white leftists who refused to vote for Kamala suffer nowhere near as much as any minority loving under Trump, and they knew that and still relax with their arms behind their heads today.
Were the “Uncommitted” Palestinians also white leftists?
The white leftists who refused to vote for Kamala suffer nowhere near as much as any minority loving under Trump, and they knew that and still relax with their arms behind their heads today
The smug liberals who refused to have a backbone or humanity in the face of their party’s genocide suffer nowhere near as much as Palestinans suffered under Biden and Harris, and they knew that and still relax with their fingers in their ears today
So you’re not at all refuting that minorities are suffering g far more than white people under Trump?
And here’s the issue with using the genocide of the Palestinians as an excuse to abandon all other minorities:
Resistance against the genocide in Palestine exists almost entirely within the progressive wing of the Democratic party.
Democracy would still almost certainly continue to exist in some capacity if Kamala had won.
But now that Trump won, Israel is not only entirely free, with zero guard rails whatsoever, to complete their genocide and attack all of their neighbors, but now the US is further involved than ever, outright bombing Iran in the process.
And genocide is your concern, huh?
What about the 4k (minimum) missing minorities that were kidnapped by ICE?
The mass building of concentration camps on US soil?
The massacre of Venezuelan civilians as prelude to an outright war and enslavement of Venezuela?
The campaign of the GOP’s to destroy the 14th amendment and Voting Rights Act? You know, eliminating birthright citizenship and voter rights, the same shit the Nazis did to Jews leading to the start of the Holocaust.
Oh, and the total betrayal of Ukraine in Russia’s genocidal war on them?
Refusal to vote for Kamala produced more genocide. Kamala was objectively the less genocidal option than Trump.
Kamala was objectively the less genocidal option than Trump.
In my mind palace.
y’all go to a ballot box and think “i’m gonna vote less genocide today” ???
As opposed to…?
You understand the US has a binary party system, right? You have 2 choices.
Since the GOP primaries for Trump, and Biden totally fucked over the Dem party by dropping too late for anyone other than Kamala to take the ticket, that was the choice.
This is not an argument for cowardice and “lesser evil” fascism, this is an argument for revolution.
A revolution that you mfers will never fight in.
Time and time again we see terminally online leftists scream for revolution, and absolutely no indication one will ever happen, let alone that they’ll participate.
This is you coping by reflexively projecting your cowardice and complacency onto others to justify your uselessness, with an (un)healthy dose of “it can’t happen here” american exceptionalism. Keep wallowing, your overlords love it.
Russia’s genocidal war
Words have meaning, and war is not genocide. You people support the Ukrainian coup government, who were doing actual ethnic cleansing before the Russian Federation finally stopped them. Anyone in the Donbas region would throw you in a hole for this equivocation, and you would deserve it. It makes me sick when liberals just mindlessly project the crimes of America’s vassals and allies on America’s enemies. Israel and Ukraine are allies. Israel trains both the Ukranian military and ICE. You are supporting, either tacitly or overtly, two different sets of nazis. You are a nazi supporter.
Refusal to vote for Kamala produced more genocide. Kamala was objectively the less genocidal option than Trump.
This is genocide-justifying horseshit to soothe your guilty conscience. Gaza was levelled under the Democrats. I’m not reading the rest of your fascist apologia because frankly, you people all spew the same delusional arguments. Anyone in Palestine would throw you into the sea for this inhumanity, and you would deserve it. Your cowardice and servility in the face of unimaginable cruelty has doomed you to live the rest of your life as a Good German. I would say good luck, but I don’t wish good luck for you. I wish you a sudden moment of terrible clarity.
Words have meaning, and war is not genocide.
Yes, war isn’t genocide.
You know what is genocide?
Mass intentional killings of Ukrainian civilians, rape of Ukrainian women, kidnappings of Ukrainian children, and destruction of Ukrainian infrastructure vital for life.
All things Russia is guilty of, and all things that adequately describe Russia’s actions as genocide.
You people support the Ukrainian coup government,
Ukrainians chose that government in the Orange revolution, of which evidence that it was a West orchestrated coup is shady at best.
Not that such an act justified Russia’s immediate response of invading and illegally annexing Crimea, and upstarting and sponsoring two major rebellions in Ukraine.
who were doing actual ethnic cleansing before the Russian Federation finally stopped them.
There is no adequate evidence whatsoever that any ethnic cleansing was taking place in Ukraine before Russia’s invasion, let alone one carried out by the Ukrainian government.
That’s some lams ass Kremlin propaganda you’re vomiting here. Long tried, long debunked, always pathetic.
Anyone in the Donbas region would throw you in a hole for this equivocation,
You sound like a fucking child.
Donbas is an authoritarian shithole experiencing a Russian sponsored rebellion entirely in the name of Russia’s desire to annex the region.
I don’t think you’re gonna be able to get a well trusted perception of events from most people in the area.
and you would deserve it.
Spoken like a real keyboard warrior.
It makes me sick when liberals just mindlessly project the crimes of America’s vassals and allies on America’s enemies.
Good thing that isn’t what’s happening here.
You’re just sperging and regurgitating Kremlin propaganda.
Israel and Ukraine are allies.
Literally meaningless to the argument.
Facts remain:
Russia is committing genocide in its war against Ukraine
Russia is the aggressor in the war against Ukraine
Kamala didn’t support giving up Ukraine to Russia. Trump does.
Therefore Trump is supporting yet another genocide that Kamala didn’t.
Basic math.
Israel trains both the Ukranian military and ICE.
Again, entirely irrelevant for the reasons listed above.
You do understand Ukraine has been in a perpetual state of desperation this entire conflict, right? They aren’t just sending their troops to Israel for training, they’re sending them to many countries, mostly in NATO.
Again though, this is irrelevant to the facts:
Russia is committing genocide in its war against Ukraine
Russia is the aggressor in the war against Ukraine
Kamala didn’t support giving up Ukraine to Russia. Trump does.
Therefore Trump is supporting yet another genocide that Kamala didn’t.
Basic math.
You are supporting, either tacitly or overtly, two different sets of nazis. You are a nazi supporter.
The modern state of Ukraine has never been demonstrated to support Nazism as a matter of policy.
They have an awkward situation where some of their historical figures collaborated with the Nazis, at least at one point or another, but they’re generally only celebrated for resistance against the Soviet Union, who like modern Russia comitted genocide against Ukraine.
If you bother to do any research on history, you might note that Ukrainians also widely resisted the Nazis too. Turns out their history is complex, not simple like the Kremlin propaganda you’ve been embarrassing yourself by spreading.
Facts remain:
Russia is committing genocide in its war against Ukraine
Russia is the aggressor in the war against Ukraine
Kamala didn’t support giving up Ukraine to Russia. Trump does.
Therefore Trump is supporting yet another genocide that Kamala didn’t.
Basic math.
And you wanna talk about Nazi supporting?
RUSSIA SUPPORTS NAZISM Some examples:
https://www.vice.com/en/article/vladimir-putin-russia-far-right/
https://icct.nl/publication/russia-and-far-right-insights-ten-european-countries
This is genocide-justifying horseshit to soothe your guilty conscience.
Who here is trying to justify genocide?
I’m stating facts:
Kamala was the less genocidal candidate.
There’s more genocide/support for genocide under Trump than there was under Biden and would have been under Kamala.
Therefore, refusal to vote for Kamala, when Trump was the only other outcome, was the pro-genodice move.
Gaza was levelled under the Democrats.
You’re fighting with ghosts.
My position was never to dispute the genocide in Gaza being enabled by the Dems.
My point is there is more genocide being supported and/or carried out under Trump that would have been under Kamala. That’s a fact.
I’m not reading the rest of your fascist apologia because
frankly, you people all spew the same delusional argumentsBecause everything I said here is not only not fascist apologia, but actual fact.
Meanwhile you’ve wasted so much time regurgitating the propaganda from an actually fascist state, Russia.
We never even got into how Russia and Israel alike both heavily supported Trump’s campaign, thus reaffirming that going against Kamala was the pro-genocide move
.Anyone in Palestine would throw you into the sea for this inhumanity,I’m seeing a lot of lame as keyboard warrior shit from you and its kinda embarrassing ngl
and you would deserve it. Your cowardice and servility in the face of unimaginable cruelty
You lost the right to that moral high ground and instead embrass that very sin with your
- Pro-genocide decision to oppose Kamala over Trump
- Your fascist apologia for Russia
has doomed you to live the rest of your life as a Good German.
Germans are generally progressive people who are also currently facing down the barrel to fascism again due to the AFD, which, by the way…
https://www.dw.com/en/the-afd-is-drawing-support-from-russia-germans/a-74223088
I would say good luck, but I don’t wish good luck for you. I wish you a sudden moment of terrible clarity.
Good god go back to Reddit with that cringe holy shit
I ain’t reading all that nazi shit, free Palestine
No its ok.
Prove to everyone you’re a moron incapable of reading more than a few lines.
Continue with your grift of pretending to care about Palestine.
There is no adequate evidence whatsoever that any ethnic cleansing was taking place in Ukraine before Russia’s invasion, let alone one carried out by the Ukrainian government.
The genocide denier
Kamala was the less genocidal candidate.
The genocide denier
I don’t think you’re gonna be able to get a well trusted perception of events from most people in the area.
The colonialist dehumanizer
Germans are generally progressive people
The hitlerite imperialist
That’s a fact.
Source: I made it up
Russia is committing genocide in its war against Ukraine
Usa projection
Russia is the aggressor in the war against Ukraine
Usa projection
You’re just **** and regurgitating Kremlin propaganda.
This will get you banned, ableist nazi scum
Do tell me what the roadmap for establishing progressive policies is like under Trump vs Kamala
Seems we’re objectively further away from a progressive government than ever. Am I wrong?
Damn thats true, seems like all your voting shit doesn’t fuckin work at all🤷♂️
Not a rebuttle to my point at all.
I’ll take it that you have absolutely no reasonable counter argument and are just shitposting images of minorities being attacked with no real goal in mind.
How typical
The problem in democracy is, that instead of a minimum IQ, there is a minimum age for voting rights.
Hmmm yes let’s give the bourgeois state further incentive to deprive the people it doesn’t like of education
IQ is pretty much a bullshit statistic that largely correllates to education and economic standing than anything else. There isn’t some grand variance in intelligence, actually, what’s at play is competing class interests and socioeconomic factors determining diet and access to education.
IQ is not a statistic.
IQ is generally bullshit. It tests how well people can take specific tests, it doesn’t correspond to actual intelligence, and people are far closer in that regard than they like to imagine.
the iq test is indeed BS, and was built on hatefulness and eugenics - is there an alternative to the iq test? i was thinking of the sat.
IQ isn’t a statistic.
Sure, it’s a tested metric, I misspoke. That doesn’t change that IQ is bullshit.
Never argued it isn’t bullshit…
Don’t see what the problem is, then.
So if everybody is well-fed and educated, we could use it to let only the most intelligent people vote?
“Most intelligent” is a moving target, but by feeding and educating everyone people will in general have better skills for making good decisions, yes.
In the current style of democracy elections can be bought by playing ads to people and by making empty promises until there is a majority.
If we need intelligence to make good decisions, but the majority is neither fed well nor educated well, people are trapped.
Do you have an idea how things can be changed?
Organizing in working class parties directly, filling in the gaps in food and education, and directly opposing the system. Marxism-Leninism.
No, the problem is that every idiot and insane can vote and even become a president, as seen.
That’s the least of bourgeois democracy’s problems, and such suffrage gatekeeping was banned for very good reasons.
Previously.
You should definitely vote but it shouldn’t be the only thing you do.
No
Yes. Voting is useful for showing solidarity with the movement and demonstrating how the current system doesn’t work. Just because it isn’t capable of causing any meaningful change doesn’t mean it’s useless.
Just because it isn’t capable of causing any meaningful change doesn’t mean it’s useless.
I see a lot of folks on .ml and .hexbear not understand this part. It’s like all change must be meaningful, and if it’s not then it’s not worth our time.
Lenin taught us that we need to build within the system of the masses in order to tip them over, not overturn it outright. There is a specific time and place for when change is the most impactful
Lenin’s position on integrating with the masses meant running working class parties in opposition to establishment parties, ie voting PSL over DNC. The vanguard’s task is to become a party that the working class puts their full support behind, so that when revolution does happen, the vanguard can serve as the spearpoint to direct the masses in one unified direction and crush the capitalist state, replacing it with a socialist one.
Psyop alert
I don’t know why you think you own the place when this is their Lemmy instance, while you’re a guest here.
I dont own the place. But neither does anyone in this comment thread, no one here is a mod on memes.ml, not that I should be expto know who owns what on a public forum
Badjacketing is bad. Don’t do that.
You’re right, I dont know that they are a psyop. I do, however, know that the position of ‘voting is not worthwhile if you are a leftist’ that they are taking above is the same position that many psyops would like to have in the minds of leftists. Put more simply, what might they have said differently if they were a psyop? Nothing, I presume.
It is better to root out psyop talking points that diminish our ability to form a collective voice, than it is to allow foolish notions like ‘dont vote’ to continue in our spaces.
Voting doesn’t do much, though. I support voting for working class orgs like PSL, but not for the DNC or GOP, and I know it’s very unlikley that PSL will win electorally. Leftists understand that the path to change is via organizing, not by supporting orgs that work against our interests, and we know we can’t magically turn a capitalist org into a proletarian one by wishcasting.
If you want to argue against that, then do so, don’t badjacket.
Im literally just telling folks to not engage in the same behavior that the fascists hope we engage in.
- I don’t care what fascists hope.
- If fascists say the sky is blue, does that make it a “fascist talking point,” and therefore isn’t blue? That’s just not how it works.
Fascists don’t care if we vote, what they care about is if we organize. Now that the spoils of imperialism are drying up, fascism is rising, and the super-exploitation we inflict on the global south is turning more inward. What fascists are scared of is working class organizing and building actual power.
Every dictator came to power through elections. Every dictator then manipulates or abolishes the next election so as not to lose power. No dictator has ever lost an election. There are “honest” exceptions but they were soft dictators. Fascism is just a special kind of dictatorship.
Some of the dumber white libs I’ve talked to honestly believe 51% of American voters voted for Trump 🤣
They don’t know what voting does or how it works but they’re sure it’s the only reasonable solution!
It’s funny how almost 20 million people less than in 2020 voted this time around (most of the missing voters being on the dem side too); people are beginning to realize we don’t really have a say
And it seems like a lot of Americans don’t understand FPTP or the Electoral College, or even the amount of voter suppression there is. Your vote only counts (and only maybe) if you live in a swing state. The votes in rural areas count for way more than in urban ones but those are already captured by R. Let’s not even get into the other branches of government:
Landholders ought to have a share in the government, to support these invaluable interests, and to balance and check the other. They ought to be so constituted as to protect the minority of the opulent against the majority. The senate, therefore, ought to be this body; and to answer these purposes, they ought to have permanency and stability.
- James Madison
bro just one more vote bro, bro I swear just one more vote and it’ll fix democracy bro
Now’s not the time for that we can’t afford four years of Vance. We need to hold our noses and vote for Skeletor so we can stop the spread, then focus on progressive issues
Skeletor, we want to vote for you so Vance doesn’t win, but stop supporting Hordak destroying Eternia
Skeletor: Hordak has a right to defend himself
Can’t wait for the next biggest elections of our lifetime between JD Vance and Gavin newsome 😂 yikes
The total lack of show-up from the majority of the left to primaries and the general election is precisely why fascists are in power today.
You speak just like a privileged white psuedo-leftist who lives in relative peace while minorities have the largest crackdown on them since the start of the War on Drugs.
how white liberals think fascism works
Chad voting in a UN resolution condemning Israel’s treatment of Palestinians in Gaza
you’re finished
Official portrait of Benjamin Netanyahu
no, pls
Well, how about we just try it first instead of resorting to instant armed combat against our own government or a civil war?
Because they’re already drawing weapons and we’ve been “trying” so hard we elected him twice. You think this will change? You think the Dems will wave a wand and institute voting reform and healthcare or increase wages or improve the living conditions?
Actually my hope is that when this is over people in the MAGA movement will finally wake up and see how much of their own lives have been destroyed by what this ass clown did to them and we as a country can agree to NEVER allow it to happen again and that we can finally go back to letting the adults govern the country instead of a man who would have been a used car salesman had his daddy not given him everything he has.
after germany lost in ww2 only 300 people stood in front of nuremberg.
every fascist that survived just used their position of power and recognition and continued staying in politics. they didn’t change their minds, only the approach.
fascism wasn’t suddenly eradicated. the generations they put into this world were taught and raised by these fascists in hiding.
MAGA fucks won’t change their minds. They’ll just change the approach.
As an American who’s lived in various countries and can’t stand his home country, I agree with you 100%.
Trump isn’t the problem, he’s a symptom of the problem. The US Empire has never served the working classes, no president has.
when this is over […] we can finally go back
(also the ‘clean energy’ he’s talking about is fracking 🥰 )
If we just keep changing the bandages and apply no antibiotics, surely the infection will just give up
how many decades have you been trying for and failing?
Instant? My guy where do you draw the line?
Sure thing, would another hundred years suffice or would that still be too early to tell?
woah only a century? cool your jets extremist
Well, how about we just try it first
Nobody in the United States has ever tried to vote against a fascist dictator?
instant armed combat
Who do you think is actually organized an armed uprising against Trump? How do you think they’re doing it “instantly”?
Untrue I tried three times to vote against a fascist dictator but over half of my fellow Americans are morons who overrode my vote two out of the three times. But the key here is that voting worked one of those times and no matter how much kicking and screaming and bitching and moaning may have happened his butt was kicked off the WH lawn on Inauguration Day so clearly it does work.
You mean Biden who believes we would have to create Israel if it didn’t exist, who continued the war drive, who delivered weapons and training to genocidaires, who put infants in solitary confinement at the border, who was instrumental in ensuring that the prisons were full of black people who could be used as slave labor, who pardoned the judge who took bribes in exchange for sentencing 8 year old to juvenile detention for jaywalking, who failed to do anything meaningful to stop Trump, who failed to do anything meaningful to limit the power of the executive so it couldn’t be abused, who failed to do anything to stop fascism at all?
Those 4 years where voting a different guy in didn’t do literally anything to stop fascism in the least?
Sure. Do it again. I am sure continuing to not stop fascism is exactly how we stop fascism
And then we got another genocidal imperialist, worker protections continued to erode, and imperialism persisted.
I think the leftist point being made isn’t that any particular election has no effect. Of course elections have effects. At the very least they provide legitimacy. I think the point is that even though it worked to unseat Trump in 2020, the election did not halt the long term processes leading us towards fascism. It slowed them down a bit but didn’t reverse trend. Reason being that the owner class kept expanding their wealth and therefore control over the entire system. I think leftist memes about elections are often poorly communicated or understood, which isn’t ideal, but then it’s …memes.
I take this meme to also point out that a fascist could just not follow elections, or call them off entirely. Adolf Hitler, the man in the image, called of elections under guise of security. Yeah, you vote against 'em, but then they refuse to leave.
“BannedVoice” pointed out that this didn’t happen in 2020, but I’d point out that then Speaker of the House, Kevin McCarthy, as well as a fair number of Republican politicians, were what you’d call “Tea Party” or neoconservative. Kevin McCarthy, as well as just about every one of these “moderate” Republicans, have been chased out of the party, largely because of their refusal to bow to MAGA orders. The Republican Party of 2020 is not the Republican Party we have now. It’s loyalists all the way through. Remember what happened with the Epstein files?
That’s important context for what happened in 2020.
Broadly, if one believes that elections are a tool that should be leveraged, it’s crucial to understand that elections are not enough, Never have been. Elections are but a small part of the democratic system. All the other cogs - campaigns, fundraising, at all levels of government, for this or that office, within parties, all of that matters immensely. The people you mention who acted as a bulwark against the fascists were a product of that system. Who the choices are come election time is the product of that. Whether it’s a Turd Sandwich v. Giant Douche. Or whether it’s Mamdani v. Cuomo.
Dont forget the rigged machines in swing states thanks to Elon.
over half of my fellow Americans are morons who overrode my vote
“How about we try voting”
“This doesn’t count, I voted but then other people voted the opposite way”
Maybe the problem is that people on Lemmy don’t understand what an election is.
But the key here is that voting worked one of those times
Oh yeah. Famously, all the fascism in America stopped existing on January 6th, 2021.
That’s why everyone was at the US Capital celebrating.
lol, is this bait?
Not sure if you have noticed, but your government has already started the armed combat against the people
Yes but my 12 gauge shotgun and my .22 riffle and my .45 handgun seem to be a tad lopsided against their tanks and drones and guided missiles so sorry if I’m not ready to pounce just yet.
You can’t complain about the quality of your guns in the US. If I pissed in a circle I’d hit six gun stores. $300 and an hour later, I’d have a better weapon than any of the insurgent groups that beat the US military.
Read up on the Viet Cong and stop making excuses
riffle
Gotta be a bit…
The .45 has me
. That’s specifically the cartridge that people buy when they want to say a 9mm is too weak for whatever combat scenario they have in mind. Some guy near me has a bumper sticker that says “.45 ACP: it’s like 9mm for men”. You can’t be both a .45 ACP chud and a smol bean.I’m a .45 ACP chud but I also recognize that it’s not gonna do much against any kind of armored target. There are dozens of us
The whole comment reads like someone whose Facebook picture is them in the driver seat of their truck wearing Oakley sunglasses and a baseball hat with an eagle on it.
Totally valid. You’re right. Under those conditions, voting will definitely work. But only if you shame people on the Internet to vote the correct way.
Poe’s law has got me good this time. Not sure if youre sarcastic or not lol.
Full on sarcastic
Liberals have tried and failed to meaningfully improve their situations via voting for centuries. Without analyzing which class is in control of the state, voting will always be extremely weak.
you’re right. one more election and we fix climate change, ranpant exploitation and discrimination! We just have to vote properly.
We’ve been trying for a long time? How long should we wait? Do they need to officially declare fascism?
Is Lemmy just full of hateful ass people or something? In what world does saying we shouldn’t start an armed rebellion worthy of all the downvotes? Y’all are fucking wild.
Lemmy is full of leftists, the vast majority of which understand that electoralism and reformism are losing strategies and that revolution is generally necessary.
your commitment to the bit is truly laudable 🤣
how about we just try it first
😭
thank you for your brainless comment, it really brought this comment section to life.
sorry.
instant
Martin Luther King, Jr. 1963: https://letterfromjail.com/
Just you wait another few more years and I’m gonna vote so hard it’ll make your head spin
