What you’re talking with is a communist that actually knows what he’s talking about.
Certainly not. Especially since we were talking about businesses, and the first thing you did was attempt to not at all subtly move the goal posts to property here
China has private property, yes, but
You then talk about chinas big boom, where you conveniently lead out the population dynamics that lead to a massive workforce in industries that due to crony capitalism moved from other countries there.
This ignores that a massive amount of the population that still just get by or live in awful conditions, or you know, the atrocities.
You go further to link some blog post pretending that they have an accurate read on a population that literally cannot vote and for whom being a political dissident can be a death sentence for you or your family.
Your second chart doesn’t even help your point. It just shows how useless the first blog post is.
China is in the early stages of socialism.
The ones where the high up members of the non democratically elected CCP get to live mega wealthy lifestyles above the law?
organize in real life and study theory
I don’t believe either thing.
I think you “study theory” as in staying inside of deep echo chambers and feeling extremely smart for having fringe opinions.
even writing an introductory Marxist-Leninist reading list to help people like yourself
Super doubt. Your messaging is so bad here, so tone deaf, and so obviously not intended to actually convince me, but to frustrate, that I completely doubt your intentions are as stated.
No one who actually cared about that would think that attempting to vaguely bash others over the head with strong but baseless opinions, then infodump rhetoric they’ve collected over time from their echo chambers would be effective tools for converting anyone to their specific beliefs.
Also, a note about china, so much of what you said was filled with lies by omission that I haven’t even gotten to state my opinions.
China is an awful country in many ways. It hurts its peoples freedom to choose their government, it hurts its peoples safety for the profit of those with the favour of the party, it regularly bulldozes over peoples livelyhoods with little regard for them as anything other than machines to do their bidding.
There are many other countries that have their own awful attributes too. On this primarily English speaking collection of sites, obviously the USA has massive warts, so do many other western countries, but the point is to specifically say that you are presenting China in a manner that is biased beyond reason.
I actually think, if China actually had democracy, a lot of what their government does regarding ownership, the boosting of strategic industries, and its long term planning are spectacular. I just don’t have stalin red tinted glasses to ignore all the bad elements of the country either.
I think their socialist elements are often decent, but given its control structure, it ends up functioning a bit like a pseudo monarchy with Xi Jingping as the king and the CCP as the family of said king. As a result, that socialism is leveraged almost as extreme consolidation of wealth, as the CCP, which no one votes for, in essence gets to do with “community” goods as it pleases, and with the rampant corruption evident there, particularly the higher you go, the more that starts to fall apart.
I have no idea why I bothered to even type as much as I have. There is so much more to say as basically its completely obvious China isn’t a boogeyman, but its also obvious it certainly is not the utopia or country on the way to utopia that you strongly and clearly imply that it is.
Like with many high functioning countries, there are positives to take away and negatives. You seem to want to go gung ho with the positives while ignoring the negatives; especially the ones that show that its socialism, while having many positives, ends up being capital for those lucky enough to be born into government.
If you actually give a shit about any of the stuff you say you do, I’d completely change your messaging, because its awful, and straight up sounds like you are trying your damnedest to be impossible to conversate with, as if you don’t want to further your stated goals but just want to always feel smarter than people in the out groups, bashing them with poorly strung together rhetoric from the in group.
If anything maybe this is a cult recruitment type of strategy where the abrasiveness is designed to filter anyone with high enough self esteem to not at all take your bullshit, meaning you only get fewer members, but ones that are completely willing to just suck up whatever you spit out.
Also, simple question for you, since you love China so much. I feel any sane person should be able to answer this easily. Is China not being democratic a major fault, yes or no?
Follow up: Since many people arent clear about it, and the term is very wide, are you the type of communist that wants a dictatorship or is your definition of communism one that could coexist with democracy/the people controlling that which governs them.
If not, how exactly do you decide who gets the free ride?
You have no sources, no points. You vaguely gesture to “atrocities” and “officials living above the law,” without any concrete examples. I give numerous facts and statistics, the blog post I linked is a compilation of peer reviewed studies and other metrics.
China isn’t free from negatives, the fact that I disagree with your blatant misconceptions like claiming China has no democracy doesn’t mean I don’t acknowledge their actual faults, such as the sluggish (but still positive) progress on implementing more LGBTQIA+ protections. I deny the absurdities you claim.
To answer your questions:
China is democratic, and I gave many sources from both China and western firms confirming it.
As answered in 1, China is democratic. I support democracy.
All in all, most people are receptive to what I have to say. You in particular opened with ableist attacks (that you keep repeating, I might add), dehumanization of me by comparing me to an LLM, and an utter refusal to engage with the points or sources I bring up. I doubt I’ll be able to convince you in particular, but I also doubt you’d listen to anyone that isn’t already repeating what you say.
You have no sources, no points. You vaguely gesture to “atrocities” and “officials living above the law,” without any concrete examples. I give numerous facts and statistics, the blog post I linked is a compilation of peer reviewed studies and other metrics.
TBF, on Reddit they never needed facts, studies, or evidence to browbeat and win fake internet points.
Fair, just felt it was important to highlight for them. They aren’t going to change their minds this time, but in the future when others keep showing them similar points because reality is oriented that way they may finally reconsider.
This is straight out of another reality. Its like gish gallop in text form.
I don’t care to continue engaging though when your stance boils down to “believe my pushy, vague and hostile crazy shit with obviously misleading ‘evidence’ from my rhetoric trove or clearly you must be closed minded”
Anyone can “have evidence” when they copy pasta from their hives choice of choice readings. I’ve seen the storm front copypastas too. Was not convinced by them either.
All in all, most people are receptive to what I have to say.
Literally only within your echo chamber. Heard of the phrase preaching to the choir? Thats how you got that false confidence. Good luck expanding those numbers though.
Thank god you’re not most progressives. That would be unbearable. Its always wild when someone can from a distance appear to have opinions close to yours, but then you zoom in and they’re wild and deranged once you get to the reasoning and “what should we do to get there” parts.
You in particular opened with ableist attacks
This is just fucking hilarious. Super lazy weaponized civility here. Hey buddy! You calling me closed minded is aBlEiSt too! Because clearly crazy is a diagnosis not just a critical adjective of the accuracy of your perception.
You really do good engagement bait though, bot or no bot.
No, I mean most people, in real life and online, are receptive to the basic facts and sources I include. You even claim a Harvard-based study is “misleading evidence” when it affirms what I’m saying. If it sounds like it’s from a different reality, then that means that your current understanding is divorced from our reality.
Not sure why you’re doubling down on ableism and dehumanization. It’s incredibly easy to just not be ableist or dehumanize people.
Certainly not. Especially since we were talking about businesses, and the first thing you did was attempt to not at all subtly move the goal posts to property here
You then talk about chinas big boom, where you conveniently lead out the population dynamics that lead to a massive workforce in industries that due to crony capitalism moved from other countries there.
This ignores that a massive amount of the population that still just get by or live in awful conditions, or you know, the atrocities.
You go further to link some blog post pretending that they have an accurate read on a population that literally cannot vote and for whom being a political dissident can be a death sentence for you or your family.
Your second chart doesn’t even help your point. It just shows how useless the first blog post is.
The ones where the high up members of the non democratically elected CCP get to live mega wealthy lifestyles above the law?
I don’t believe either thing.
I think you “study theory” as in staying inside of deep echo chambers and feeling extremely smart for having fringe opinions.
Super doubt. Your messaging is so bad here, so tone deaf, and so obviously not intended to actually convince me, but to frustrate, that I completely doubt your intentions are as stated.
No one who actually cared about that would think that attempting to vaguely bash others over the head with strong but baseless opinions, then infodump rhetoric they’ve collected over time from their echo chambers would be effective tools for converting anyone to their specific beliefs.
Also, a note about china, so much of what you said was filled with lies by omission that I haven’t even gotten to state my opinions.
China is an awful country in many ways. It hurts its peoples freedom to choose their government, it hurts its peoples safety for the profit of those with the favour of the party, it regularly bulldozes over peoples livelyhoods with little regard for them as anything other than machines to do their bidding.
There are many other countries that have their own awful attributes too. On this primarily English speaking collection of sites, obviously the USA has massive warts, so do many other western countries, but the point is to specifically say that you are presenting China in a manner that is biased beyond reason.
I actually think, if China actually had democracy, a lot of what their government does regarding ownership, the boosting of strategic industries, and its long term planning are spectacular. I just don’t have stalin red tinted glasses to ignore all the bad elements of the country either.
I think their socialist elements are often decent, but given its control structure, it ends up functioning a bit like a pseudo monarchy with Xi Jingping as the king and the CCP as the family of said king. As a result, that socialism is leveraged almost as extreme consolidation of wealth, as the CCP, which no one votes for, in essence gets to do with “community” goods as it pleases, and with the rampant corruption evident there, particularly the higher you go, the more that starts to fall apart.
I have no idea why I bothered to even type as much as I have. There is so much more to say as basically its completely obvious China isn’t a boogeyman, but its also obvious it certainly is not the utopia or country on the way to utopia that you strongly and clearly imply that it is.
Like with many high functioning countries, there are positives to take away and negatives. You seem to want to go gung ho with the positives while ignoring the negatives; especially the ones that show that its socialism, while having many positives, ends up being capital for those lucky enough to be born into government.
If you actually give a shit about any of the stuff you say you do, I’d completely change your messaging, because its awful, and straight up sounds like you are trying your damnedest to be impossible to conversate with, as if you don’t want to further your stated goals but just want to always feel smarter than people in the out groups, bashing them with poorly strung together rhetoric from the in group.
If anything maybe this is a cult recruitment type of strategy where the abrasiveness is designed to filter anyone with high enough self esteem to not at all take your bullshit, meaning you only get fewer members, but ones that are completely willing to just suck up whatever you spit out.
Also, simple question for you, since you love China so much. I feel any sane person should be able to answer this easily. Is China not being democratic a major fault, yes or no?
Follow up: Since many people arent clear about it, and the term is very wide, are you the type of communist that wants a dictatorship or is your definition of communism one that could coexist with democracy/the people controlling that which governs them.
If not, how exactly do you decide who gets the free ride?
You’re so confidently incorrect. China does have voting and democratic structutes. They have the largest elections in the entire world. Further, they have eliminated absolute poverty, and year over year have steadily improved living conditions across the country.
You have no sources, no points. You vaguely gesture to “atrocities” and “officials living above the law,” without any concrete examples. I give numerous facts and statistics, the blog post I linked is a compilation of peer reviewed studies and other metrics.
China isn’t free from negatives, the fact that I disagree with your blatant misconceptions like claiming China has no democracy doesn’t mean I don’t acknowledge their actual faults, such as the sluggish (but still positive) progress on implementing more LGBTQIA+ protections. I deny the absurdities you claim.
To answer your questions:
China is democratic, and I gave many sources from both China and western firms confirming it.
As answered in 1, China is democratic. I support democracy.
All in all, most people are receptive to what I have to say. You in particular opened with ableist attacks (that you keep repeating, I might add), dehumanization of me by comparing me to an LLM, and an utter refusal to engage with the points or sources I bring up. I doubt I’ll be able to convince you in particular, but I also doubt you’d listen to anyone that isn’t already repeating what you say.
TBF, on Reddit they never needed facts, studies, or evidence to browbeat and win fake internet points.
Fair, just felt it was important to highlight for them. They aren’t going to change their minds this time, but in the future when others keep showing them similar points because reality is oriented that way they may finally reconsider.
This is straight out of another reality. Its like gish gallop in text form.
I don’t care to continue engaging though when your stance boils down to “believe my pushy, vague and hostile crazy shit with obviously misleading ‘evidence’ from my rhetoric trove or clearly you must be closed minded”
Anyone can “have evidence” when they copy pasta from their hives choice of choice readings. I’ve seen the storm front copypastas too. Was not convinced by them either.
Literally only within your echo chamber. Heard of the phrase preaching to the choir? Thats how you got that false confidence. Good luck expanding those numbers though.
Thank god you’re not most progressives. That would be unbearable. Its always wild when someone can from a distance appear to have opinions close to yours, but then you zoom in and they’re wild and deranged once you get to the reasoning and “what should we do to get there” parts.
This is just fucking hilarious. Super lazy weaponized civility here. Hey buddy! You calling me closed minded is aBlEiSt too! Because clearly crazy is a diagnosis not just a critical adjective of the accuracy of your perception.
You really do good engagement bait though, bot or no bot.
No, I mean most people, in real life and online, are receptive to the basic facts and sources I include. You even claim a Harvard-based study is “misleading evidence” when it affirms what I’m saying. If it sounds like it’s from a different reality, then that means that your current understanding is divorced from our reality.
Not sure why you’re doubling down on ableism and dehumanization. It’s incredibly easy to just not be ableist or dehumanize people.