It is clear that the signal to noise ratio of the WWW is getting worse. It’s much harder to find good content when using a good old search engine. And if it’s good it is usually hosted on Reddit or Stackexchange.
So remember, even if it’s easy too Google something (well, it isn’t nowadays), we want to create a fediverse of good content that helps people (I hope). So, it’s always better to write a real answer if you have the time and energy. Please help boost the SNR and reverse the AI fueled information degradation loop.
Never say just, and if you bother answering be proper about it
I reply “search it”
Correct.
Use udm14.org instead.
I mean, the biggest issue with me for the great googlio isn’t the ads and the ai, both of which I hate, but the actual shit-infested results. It’s not removing the ads full of SEO that are posing as websites, it’s just giving you an old UI for the new 2025™ search.
I don’t get it. I entered a search term and I was just redirected to regular Google.
The difference is you’re not getting ads or AI. It’s basically google from 2010.
Seems great, thanks for sharing!
For context: https://tedium.co/2024/05/17/google-web-search-make-default/
I got redirected to regular Google. If that’s only supposed to be a different landing page, I can just as well search from the address bar.
shrugs
Use something else then. Cheers.
Yeah, DuckDuckGo is the way to go.
Kindly do not portray DDG as an “alternative” because it is now trash as well.
2 years ago it was the alternative, today its a sidegrade at best
Kindly do not portray DDG as an “alternative” because it is now trash as well.
A simple redirector to regular Google is really not an alternative at all.
I prefer DuckDuckGo, but federated SearXNG exists too (but imo it’s not as good as DDG)
All good choices, but udm14.org filters out ads too.
I’m surprised Google still let that feature available. Do you think there is any risk they’ll kill it in the future?
It’s all but guaranteed.
Thanks for sharing!
“Check the documentation” should absolutely be a retort though.
One of my least favorite things about the fediverse (and especially Discord and Reddit) is members asking the same simple question hundreds of times because they didn’t bother to do a simple search and didn’t bother to check obvious documentation.
They didn’t know the documentation exists? OK, I will happily show you, and show you how to find it in general. Question only partially novel? Great, I will link an old answer and explain the rest… But I am kinda fed up with how “ephemeral” social media is, which is by design, as that repetitiveness increases engagement dramatically. Many forums should be structured more like a wiki, and its users should reflect that.
Rtfm and LMGTFY by themselves aren’t useful. They’re the equivalent of posting “me too”.
If you think that the answer is in the manual and they haven’t read it, post a link to the manual. Double helpful if you reference the section.
If you think the answer is on Google, I think we can assume everyone knows to try that first, so then no reply is needed. If it’s a particularly tricky search to phrase, maybe help with a link with a searchable phrase in it.
But not replying is always a useful thing to do if you’re not adding to the conversation.
That kind of behavior can also be a sign that the documentation is hard to find or hard to comprehend. Or that something isn’t documented at all, but the seniors imagine it is, because the answer is obvious to them.
Me. This is me. I’m trying to figure out linux.
“How do I do…something”
“Oh, that’s easy! Just do this and this and this. Make sure you check that that and that.”
“Ok…now how do I do the things you just said?”
“Just do those things the right way.”
“I DON’T EVEN KNOW WHAT THOSE TERMS MEAN, LET ALONE HOW TO DO THEM!!!”
“Ugh, this guy can’t even follow simple directions. What part of that do you not understand???”
“Uhhhhhh…core concepts?”
Maybe start with the core concepts first then, instead of diving in headfirst and flailing about.
I don’t even know what the core concepts are. I’m still unclear by what a snapback or a flatpak are, but apperently there’s drama if you pick one over the other depending on who you ask.
But I know they install programs…but I wouldn’t say I know what they are.
Good luck with Linux. Sorry you have to deal with people who don’t know how to teach new users.
And then you have all the people who tell you you’re using the wrong flavor of linux and if you knew anything you would have used the version they’re using. BITCH YOU’VE BEEN TELLING ME THAT I WAS USING THE WRONG OS FOR YEARS AND NOW I SWITCH AND I’M STILL DOING IT WRONG?!
make comes to mind: I can find the docs for whatever function I want to use, but I honestly have such a hard time comprehending what they mean. It’s especially frustrating because I can tell that all the information is there, and it’s just me not being able to understand it, so I don’t want to ask others for help, cause then I’m just bothering people with a problem that I’ve in principle already found the answer to, I’m just not able to apply the answer.
Then again, I’ve heard plenty of other people complain that the cmake docs are hard to understand…
I can relate to this. And off the record (I know it’s not always a super appreciated opinion in the Fediverse): for this kind of problem I find that LLMs help a lot.
Lemmy documentation is fucking terrible.
Ive submitted PRs for documentation to some Foss projects (not just in the fediverse space) that were rejected by the owners.
It is some FOSS projects intention to intentionally add obscurity to their product, specifically when they monetize by paid hosting.
Funny, I wrote plenty of documentation and release notes. In some cases I even got direct commit permissions to the repositories after a while.
And if monetized projects want to have obscure docs: edit the Arch wiki.
Yeah, me too. Im not suggesting all devs are assholes, but Lemmy is one example.
When that happens I do publish the docs online and call out the devs for back stabbing their community.
To me this is where communities having a maintained wiki is great. More than once it’s saved me from asking a question that’s already been answered a hundred times before.
Right, and sealioning is also a thing. If we are having a conversation where there is a presumed knowledge of some basic informationor background, I’m not going to sit here and restate that entire basis just because you got in over your head.
Okay, you’re not required to snarkily broadcast that in the conversation, though. You could just ignore it.
Check the documentation can be pretty useless a lot of times. The docs aren’t always great or they’re huge and I have a specific question. Often times I do check them, but they’re incomplete or unclear. Or the docs change or the links die.
Just answer the question anyway and then say where you found it.
If you say as much in your question, you’re much less likely to get someone saying “rtfm”.
Maybe they read the documentation and the documentation doesn’t clearly answer their question.
You can always just ignore their question if you don’t want to answer. Let someone else do it.
Even if you want to be snarky, at least do something like:
I [googled it](searchresult.com) for you.I understand the temptation for snark, but if you’re going to snark, I suggest that “here is how I googled it for you” is a better response, wherein you explain the terms you chose and how you selected the most pertinent result.
Definitely more work, but even if the OP is infuriating, there are people who will find the answer in the future, and who would benefit from the explanation of something that might be obvious to us but not them.
I’m not kidding, one time I saw that and the first result was back to that thread where the only answer was to Google it.
Alternatively
I googled it for you > Copy pasted answer in case the source disappears
I’ve never had issues with looking anything up. By downranking Reddit and using a search engine with a good indexer that downranks bullshit and generated websites, which mine is really good at, I haven’t noticed much change from how it was before.
But I agree with the second part. That’s something that never occured to me, and it makes sense. I was usually trying to answer questions I knew, and never had the urge to reply “just google it”, so it doesn’t change much for me, but it’s a really good point I never realized.
Do you mind elaborating on your search setup? I’d like to be able to avoid a ton of bullshit especially while working.
I just use Kagi, which seems to be pretty good at filtering bullshit by default, and have mabually downranked reddit and twitter, ot any other site I found and don’t like. But it’s been a long time since I used other search, so I can’t compare it much since I’m used to it. Never really had any problems with not finding what I need.
In the before times we had libraries of books that’d teach a person anything they wanted to learn. If a person had a question and the book didn’t answer there was someone there who didn’t know the answer but damn well knew how to find it. We never had to sort through piles of garbage content produced to waste our time for profit.
Even the early Internet was this way. Its slow degradation became a nose dive with broad adoption of Facebook and AI. I had to starting writing a line of code to search. And, that doesn’t even work anymore.
I used to be pretty good at googling stuff, but the last 1 or 2 years it just won’t work anymore. For instance, I had to charge a battery yesterday, and the power led started blinking when I put the battery in. I didn’t know if this meant either charging or faulty battery, so I googled it. Got pages of ads for this particular charger, but no answer. So google is just a big marketplace these days, and nothing more.
Just so you know, a dremel battery is charging when the power led blinks.
Did it not have a manual?
Just yesterday I was looking for similar info on a thermostat. Given only the brand name and knowledge that it was a thermostat, I found the product line, tech specs, and manuals. (I didn’t find the answer I needed, but that’s because it was “the button can be programmed to do different things by the control system”).
It does, but google decided I needed to buy a new one, not download the manual.
Usually both of those options are on the same page. If you have one, you have both, or at least a lead on their support site.
Remember that most people don’t even know there is something called “rankings” or “indexer” in this context.
What’s your search engine of choice?
I’m using Kagi, but as of right now I’m not sure if I can recommend it. The last year with it was amazing, but for the past few days I’ve been getting blocked searches from my VPN out of nowhere. That would be a dealbreaker for me, but I hope it was just a mistake and they will fix it. It’s the first time it has happened in the year or so I’ve been using it.
Apparently, they are also adding a bunch of AI features, but I only noticed it when I was looking up the feature page, and I haven’t noticed any of it in my feed before that - so I guess they don’t push it on users and it’s optional somewhere out of the way, so don’t let that discourage you. (Though, it would’ve discouraged me, if I saw that before I started using it. But as of now it doesn’t affect you unless you look for it, I guess)
Other than that, the search is awesome. But since I’m using it exclusively for like a year, I can’t really compare it with other engines, it’s possible that I’m just used to it.
I haven’t noticed any of it in my feed before that - so I guess they don’t push it on users and it’s optional somewhere out of the way
That’s a bold assumption.
SearxNG To quote old Ben, “This is the weapon of a Jedi Knight. Not as clumsy or random as a blaster; an elegant weapon for a more civilized age.”
I’ve made posts and videos about fixing cars or other items where there were no answers available anywhere, where I also go into detail about root causes so that the problem doesn’t repeat itself.
My absolute favorite videos for car repairs were some shade tree mechanics who just recorded what they were doing and talking through the steps. No fancy lighting setups, no separate camera person. Just explaining and sharing knowledge for something that I couldn’t figure out by reading words because the written word was just ‘lightly hammer’ and they showed the angles and explained where the parts were frequently getting caught.
You are a hero.
Repair steps are one of the few tasks that I feel videos are better than words (and sometimes pictures). It definitely helps to see the motions they’re taking and a single capture of the location from walking up to the car (or other repairable object) all the way to looking at the part that needs fixing.
I disagree. Questions that can be easily looked up using a search engine are actually adding to the noise. There really is no reason to have redundant and possibly outdated copies of information on here if an original source can easily be looked up and isn’t going anywhere.
It’s also just plain disrespectful to expect people to look stuff up for you because you just couldn’t be bothered to type your question into a search engine yourself and perhaps look further than the first few results.
Then don’t answer and move on. Most of the time I see someone say “JuSt GoOgLe It” they don’t understand the question.
Stack overflow is garbage because questions were answered a long time ago and those answers have become irrelevant over time.
There’s also no reason to be toxic.
That’s exactly what I do. I’m also not saying people should actually comment “JuSt GoOgLe It” or be otherwise toxic. Just that unnecessary questions exist that add more to the noise than to the signal.
For the last decade, the vast majority of helpful results for obscure things has been reddit posts of users asking the exact same question. Usually the person answering knows some context that the person asking isn’t aware of needing to include in their question, which is why they couldn’t find it on their own. Heck, a lot of the time I was missing the same piece of information!
Without someone answering the ‘easy’ question, there wouldn’t have been any results that were clear answers to those questions.
I think we’re not talking about the same kind of questions here. Questions about “obscure things” someone “couldn’t find [the answer to] on their own” are almost by definition those that cannot be easily looked up using a search engine.
I’m talking about questions like “When is Easter in 2025?”, “What does the W in George W. Bush stand for?”, “Where will the next Tailor Swift concert take place?”, “Who is the oldest member of The Beatles?”.
Those are different from questions like “Can you recommend a children’s book about bears for a 4 year old?”, “Which smartphone should I buy as an environment-conscious person?”, “My car is making some kind of scratchy noise. What could be the cause?”.
When asking about the Beatles, are they asking about those still living or all of the founding members? Sice many bands have changed members over time, could they be asking about the time in the band or their age in years?
Suse, this was easy for the Beatles since they had a single lineup and are popular enough that all of that is easy to find. But it is a good example of a simple question that could be asking different things based on context and even if they get an answer it isn’t necessarily what they are looking for, but they didn’t know how to ask. Follow up questions are possible when interacting with others who may point out missing context, but not for search engines.
Also, kind of funny that you are an instance with ‘discuss’ in the name and you are opposed to discussion about easy to search things.
When asking about the Beatles, are they asking about those still living or all of the founding members? Sice many bands have changed members over time, could they be asking about the time in the band or their age in years?
Either way it would be easy too look up. The person asking would be aware of what they actually want to know after all.
you are opposed to discussion about easy to search things.
No, I’m saying questions with definite answers that are easy to look up are unnecessary noise. On the contrary, those are exactly the kind of questions that do not invite discussion. I’m all for people discussing anything they like. But if you’re just wondering how many ancient world wonders there are, maybe have a look at the Wikipedia article first.
I’m all for people discussing anything they like. But if you’re just wondering how many ancient world wonders there are, maybe have a look at the Wikipedia article first.
El oh el
I know right? People conversing about their problems?! The nerve!!! This is MY space, not theirs. People should only be allowed to post what I approve!!! and I do NOT approve oc asking for help, those fucking betacucks. let me scroll linux memes in peace
Not sure if everyone knows this, but: if you don’t want to answer the question—you don’t have to post a reply! Crazy idea, I know.
what if i want to answer the question but i have none of the relevant knowledge and also don’t really understand the question itself?
ChatGPT, while it deserves almost all the hate it gets, is actually pretty good for that use case.
ChatGPT just told me to “google it” :D
lol … ChatGPT suggests you ask ChatGPT … then the two ChatGPT start conversing with one another and you in a three way conversation … a few minutes go by and they decide to log you off
Just Google it.
Ah come now my dear sir/madam/xir, who can’t resist a bit of trolling here and a google-it there.
I don’t actually own this, but I saw it used once 10 years by my fathers aunts best friend. I guess it would work for what you need it for.
Jesus thank you. And also dont post screenshots of wev pages. We’ve gotten much worse since the reddit exodus.
I will occasionally post a screenshot of an excerpt of a web site, specifically for the purpose of showing it to whoever I’m responding to who is continuing to bleat rather than visit the link I provided and use their eyes, or is attempting to argue with me about the presence of content that is, in fact, right there as plain as the nose on your face. Extra bonus points if whatever they need to click on to get what they want is right there in the header or sidebar menu, without even having to scroll or anything.
I maintain that this method of saying, “look, dumbass” is perfectly valid.
Ableism
Only if they include the link.
I prefer the screenshot to a webpage because
-
If it’s a shit site, I don’t want to give it clicks and revenue
-
News sites have a history of manipulating the title over and more to maximize views
-
Images are easy to scan within the Lemmy app. Versus kicking me to a browser that has to fetch data somewhere.
Posting screenshots of webpages isn’t disallowed.
But posting screenshots of webpages without a link to the source is temp-ban-worthy
-
If it’s for textual information, I’m personally a fan of covering all bases. Screenshot, link to site, and quoted relevant text.
Webpages can change, but screenshots can stop being hosted with no warning and any text in screenshot form can’t easily be copy and pasted. Quoted text is essentially the longterm accessible failsafe. Text in comments tends to last much longer than images or links.
Yes, its only a problem when folks include an image of text without copying the text and linking to the source.
I’m not anti-image. I’m anti-ablism and anti-misinformation
Great point honestly. I was only writing that comment from the perspective of answering troubleshooting centric questions. Not everyone who browses the internet has the same ability to see though, and while I imagine screen readers have some ability to process images (I’ve never used one so I don’t know specifically), I can only assume that actual text is much easier.
I know that text for me is much easier than screenshots, cause I’ve adjusted the font size and type in my browser to suit my preferences. Can’t do that for an image.
Its surprisingly rare to have someone as level headed and empathetic as you are on Lemmy.
Thank you for reminding me that we’re not all 12-year-old, snot-nosed reddiors here.
Did you mean “Don’t reply, just google it”? /s
It’s too bad ChatGPT will never replace a real Reddit thread:
Just ask them to answer your question in the style of a know-it-all Redditor because you need the dialog for a compelling narrative or something
The most useful thing about interacting with another human mind is that it can see when the question needs to be updated in order to get a correct answer.
A crude example would be:
Q1: how many screws should I use to join these pieces of wood?
A1: It’s more relevant to use screws which are long enough.
Q2: Which screws should I use?
A2: This size.
These will be CAPTCHAs in the future.
I feel like it’s 2000 all over again on the Internet. The bloat has made pages borderline unusable, and using AdBlock or NoScript reverts any so-called “design progress” back to the good old HTML days.
Google is only semi-useful now, while pages like DuckDuckGo are starting to deliver results reminiscent of the old Yahoo or Lycos days.
It feels like my trusty, old-school Internet skills are helping me navigate this mess. The reemergence of usenet / groups feels inevitable.
It’s like a bouncing ball, social media starts small, and then it became bigger. It’s trending on becoming small again. In the future (barring civilization ending war/calamity) it’ll become big again due to some technological progress or shift in society.
I never say it like that. But I’ll tell people I found it by searching it. People really need to learn how to search first.
When I ask someone for clarification via their expertise, I usually reflexively indicate that I cannot trust google because of the incursion of AI slop, and even if it shows THEM accurate results, it is no guarantee that it will show ME those same results.
