Terminally online leftist type shit
No one owes the Democratic Party their vote. To some people genocide is about the worst thing that anyone can do and the Democrats did it.
Quick side note, thanks for helping me identify so many Russian influenced accounts, should make my lemmy experience better.
More like…
The lever can reduce the speed of the trolley depending on which way you turn it, but regardless the trolley will gradually accelerate either way.
He OP, how much does working for a Russian bot farm pay? I mean I imagine well to abandon your dignity and intelligence like this.
We get 30 mana for every time we rile up a lib, and 1 dragonscale if the lib gets steam coming out of the ears.
lol fascist
Tell your handlers to give you a different script for Lemmy than the one they gave you for reddit, read the room
Can’t even think of your own original insult? No wonder Russia has such an easy time getting to fuck yourself.
Most intelligible lib
We have three mainstream parties. Works with that too.
Trump and Harris are the equivalent is such a juvenile take I’m surprised you’re allowed to use a computer without adult supervision.
Please, go gain some life experience, education, and come back a better person - you’re really just a detriment to society spouting this half thought out I’m 14 and this is deep horse shit.
Now that’s some aggressive debateme
Okay, I’ll bite. Let’s fight.
Harris would be worse. Reasons:
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bluemaga is more pro genocide when dem is prez.
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Separating europe from usa is more likely when trump is prez. (euro rulers hate him somehow, even though he’s just as dumb and evil as them)
No no no, no asking yourself a cherry picked question and answering it, your intellectual dishonest has no place here.
Answer the questions as they were written , like you presumably learned in school.
would Harris have masked Gestapo roaming the streets, Nazis working in official capacity throughout the government, and talks of suspending habeas corpus?
Remind me how many felonies Harris has been convicted of - NO, not the ones you believe she should be convicted of, the ones a court of law determined. Remind me how many people an adjudicator determined she raped.
Muppet.
yes she prosecuted and jailed so many innocent innocent kids in her past, and then continued under her vice presidency with her decisions and under direct administration to get so many people raped and genocided. so is your question, did we prefer to vote to get little raped rather than super raped? some would argue the latter because it’d cause a crisis to the system that would get the people to wake up and do something about it while little rape would be just as painful and last forever without change.
so remimd me, do you prefer little rape and prosection for your immediate family only that lasts forever without any hope or anyone fighting for you? or would you rather all your city get raped and prosecuted but with hundrends of millions of people nationwide and globally fighting the system to end it and free you?
You win! How should I have handled the 2024 election differently to save my country, they who have all the answers?
Also, please explain, when my choices were ONLY a little rape and a lot of rape how stamping my feet and loudly explaining that rape is bad would accomplish…. What?
so many people stamping their feet and loudly explaining that rape is bad is what would help bring this raping system down
Cool, you got the organizing skills to accomplish that? I can’t even convince a bunch of adults using toddler logic that they shouldn’t use toddler logic , I’m clearly not the person for the job.
-
Cause, broadly speaking, both parties are very similar. Both sit way to the right of the main parties in most countries.
Do I need to pull up the Webster definitions of similar and same for you?
You can do what you like, what I wouldn’t bother do is pointing out the difference in the two main USA political parties, cause there’s no point. One does fascism and mistreats the working class with a smile, one does it with an angry face.
So answer my question then.
Do you honestly believe if Harris was president, we’d have a Nazi defense secretary, a Nazi ghoul advocating for plenary authority for the White House, and masked Gestapo kidnapping innocent brown people in the streets?
Remind me how many felonies Harris has, or how many people an adjudicator has decided she raped.
Muppets, one and all you are.
Counting felonies under the law of evil? Makes sense for a harris (cop) supporter.
ACAB
ACAB 100%.
Harris is not my first, second, or 100th choice. She’s demonstrably better than Temu Hitler though.
Just tell me this first, would a casually fascist president really make you feel that much better than an overtly fascist one?
It’s something I’m really struggling to get my head round…cause I can’t believe how far right USA parties are compared to U.K. ones….and we are fucked.
“Just let me avoid answering your question and… “ No. They’re demonstrably not the same, as evidenced by you inability to answer the question. Also basic common sense.
No, I don’t think Harris would have ICE roaming the streets.
But then I don’t see the point in differentiating between casual and overt fascism. Both are way to the right of me.
I’ll ask again…are you ok with casual fascism?
Bro is making a life out of ragebaiting democrat leaning lemmitors.
This kind of false equivalency is how you end up with Trump.
It’s perfectly fine to dislike both, but if you’re forced to choose between oatmeal with bugs in it and a shit sandwich, you don’t huff and protest the vote, because turn your Definitely eat a shit sandwich.
This kind of false equivalency is how you end up with Trump.
Democrats needed to do more to differentiate themselves. But they’re still stuck in 1992 and think that if they just triangulate with fascists and treat their own base as hostages, that they’re entitled to victory.
This kind of false equivalency is how you end up with Trump.
The fact that there’s no discernible difference between the parties (or, worse, that Trump rhetorically can outflank Dems from the popular left) should cause Democrats to soul-search and come back with a better political strategy. Instead, we just get this dogmatic insistence that Liz Cheney and Michael Bloomberg are better options than Donald Trump, so you have to go pound pavement in the 100° weather knocking doors, begging friends and neighbors over the phone, and dipping into your kids’ college funds to “donate till it hurts” in an effort to get them elected.
It’s perfectly fine to dislike both
It clearly is not. That’s the fucking problem. Telling people “go eat dogshit because its tastier than horseshit” and then bitching when your shit stand can’t break even is the root of the problem.
Time and time and time again, liberal Democrats run away from the popular candidates in favor of the candidates that can raise the most money. Time and time and time again, these candidates lose to Republicans who are raising money from the exact same evil assholes.
And when we finally fucking see a populist start winning in a bright blue city like NYC, you get the liberal media leadership saying this shit on national television.
Bill Maher raises concerns over Mamdani’s Ugandan citizenship on ‘Real Time’
It’s Birtherism all over again.
Man, reading comprehension is none of your strong points is it. I won’t waste too much time, but if you think Kamala Harris and Trump were equivalent you weren’t worth talking to in the first place.
if you think Kamala Harris and Trump were equivalent
Obviously they’re different. One’s got a big “D” next to her name and climbed into her California Senate seat through Jerry Brown’s bed sheets. The other one was a billionaire mega-donor to Hillary Clinton’s Senatorial and Presidential Primary campaigns, and hung out with her husband on trips down to Epstein Island. Also he became a Republican a few weeks after Obama won the Presidency.
And I imagine if I was as full of and sure of myself as you I’d also spout this kind of nonsense which, rather obviously, fails to answer the question.
If Harris were president right now, would we have gestapo roaming the streets, or Nazi ghouls mentioning plenary authority? How many felony’s is Harris currently carrying, is she an adjudicated rapist?
It’s like all it takes to counter your bullshit is eyes and ears.
I know you won’t answer the question and you’ll go off on some other tangent, as long as you know in your heart you’re spouting bullshit.
I’d also spout this kind of nonsense
What you’re doing is called “Denialism”. You don’t want to accept that Donald Trump was a staunch friend, financial supporter, and NYC powerbroker working on behalf of the Democratic Party for decades. So instead of facing this reality and what it means about the state of the party, you’re going to cover your ears and pretend it didn’t happen.
If Harris were president right now, would we have gestapo roaming the streets, Nazi ghouls mentioning plenary authority, or giant corporations settling with the FCC to curry favor?
As she seemed intent on continuing the policies of the prior administrations, the answer is clearly “Yes”. We had gestapo doing their dirty work all through the American Southwest going back to the Polk Administration. Bush created ICE, Obama expanded ICE, Trump expanded ICE, Biden expanded ICE, and Kamala Harris campaigned on a platform of anti-immigration that would require her to expand ICE.
Would we have goons like Steven Miller and Curtis Yarvin ranting about unitary executives and divine right of kings under a Harris Administration? Absolutely. Would they be operating in friendly Republican gubernatorial cabinets and think tanks and Congressional offices? Absolutely. Would they be setting national policy through the courts and the legislature and red state executive offices? Absolutely. If Republicans still commanded Congress, would they be authoring national policy that President Harris eventually signed into law? Abso-fucking-lutely.
Would Larry Ellison and Bob Iger and Satya Nadella be kicking back tens of millions of dollars to Republican allies via “settlements”? Would Citadel and JP Morgan be bribing politicians with large purchases of shitcoins to get around campaign contribution limits and other anti-corruption laws? 100% guaranteed. They were doing this shit before Trump took office. Why would they stop now?
Your problem isn’t that these fascist policies exist. Your problem is that they’ve breached “containment” in Red States. Now it’s not just a Texas problem or a Florida problem. Its an Everybody problem. You can’t just ignore the fascism anymore. You can’t say “Those fuckers down south are getting what they deserve”.
Now you’re down in the shit here with the rest of us. Welcome to hell, asshole.
Oh, you went the “they’re the same” route. I’m so sorry, your opinion is too incorrect for me to care. It’s adorable how you mentioned that Mille would still be alive and talking, as if my point wasn’t would he be a part of the admin or not. You can’t answer a straight question with a straight answer without being wrong.
Because you said, with a straight face, Harris would have masked Gestapo roaming the streets.
If you love Russian money so much, move their traitor.
Brother, you’ve got a worse case of brain worms than some Kennedys I could name.
Kinda crazy how democrats now are just like: “Yeah, I eat a plate of shit. I don’t like it, but they told me that was the only option. So I did it, I’m proud of it, and anyone else should be ashamed to not be eating shit like me.”
And they’re only pretending that they don’t like the taste.
not everyone wants to me a Marxist
Democrats are the oatmeal with bugs in it,Trump is the shit sandwich - clarifying on the off chance you’re just confused and not willfully ignorant.
Nah it is more like. We all have been eating shit but majority thought it is steak. Lets all eat super mega shit so that majority will start to recognize.
It’s kind of funny, that democrats would rather eat bug infested cereals over a shit sandwich, when they could also push for cereals to be actually clean.
Tells you a lot about those people.
If you make me eat shit or cockroaches, I’d rather leave, thanks.
Both are shit sandwiches. Trying to use analogy to obfuscate willing participation in genocide, perpetuation of imperialism, brutalization of immigrants, etc doesn’t actually erase material reality.
Organize.
Libs are almost pathologically reliant on analogies even in the simplest of scenarios because talking about things as they really are is often indefensible and would necessitate saying the most ghoulish and monstrous shit
Yep, it’s all smoke and mirrors.
Yup, they’re both the same thing, as long as you ignore the evidence of your eyes, ears and heart.
Jesus Christ it’s like you’ve never hear the expression that the perfect is the enemy of the good.
Jesus Christ it’s like you’ve never hear the expression that the perfect is the enemy of the good.
No one’s buying that democrats are “the good” anymore. They’re not even “the adequate.”
It’s almost like 2 genocidal fascists can’t be considered “good” to begin with.
It’s almost like ignoring everything about a person except 1 aspect of them makes you too ignorant to talk about it.
Go back to Reddit where your lack of critical thinking skills will help you fit in.
I’m not ignoring everything except one aspect, though. Both are genocidal, and both serve the interests of the US Empire above all-else, and as such they share far more in common than not. I’m not ignorant, and you can take your faux-superiority back. I’ve been here far longer than you have, telling me to go back to Reddit doesn’t make any sense. I’m a communist, the devs are communists, and a lot of communists are on Lemmy after various subreddits like r/GenZedong, r/TheDeprogram, and r/ChapoTrapHouse got banned. What I say fits in here.
I’m not ignoring everything except one aspect, though. Both are genocidal, and both serve the interests of the US Empire above all-else,
Hardly. Democrats made it clear that they care about netanyahu’s political career above all else.
The purpose of supporting Israel is so that it secures US interests in the region.
I’m not pretending America is the best country, or Harris would be the best for the world.
I have 0 interest in Defending her, but claiming they’re the same with a straight face is fucking laughable. America would be a better country internally and on the global stage with her in charge, by any metric that isn’t “burn all capitalism down”.
Here’s an easy one - would Harris have sent a citizen to CECOT without a trial? Obviously not, because she’s demonstrably different from Trump, like any 3 year old could determine.
She sent a transwoman to mens prison, who got raped and joked about it.
You’re pathetically trying to defend this evil ghoul:Under her jurisdiction, in “progressive” San Francisco, 56% of all inmates in SF jails were black, along with 40% of all arrests (Only 5.8% of the population is black). Ignores police brutality, protected 14 of her officers who were caught sending extremely racist text messages. Oversaw San Francisco’s felony conviction rate rising from 52% to 67% in only 3 years.
As part of her tough on crime approach she assigned senior prosecutors to misdemeanors like graffiti and vandalism, tripling the number of cases brought to trial. After a federal judge orders California to expand prison releases to reduce crowding, her office argued in court that if forced to release these inmates early, prisons would lose an important labor pool. Spent years jailing disproportionately black nonviolent cannabis users while opposing taking cannabis off DEA’s list of most dangerous substances and literally laughing at the idea of legalizing it multiple times, even as her Republican opponent ran to the left of her on the issue. She then tried to pander by admitting to smoking herself despite prosecuting others, but got her story all wrong. Drug convictions under her office soared, convicting more people of marijuana possession than her predecessor (she also admitted to smoking marijuana) 2 Laughs about threatening parents with jailtime for truancy. 2. The stories of several mothers she jailed. Pushed a law that forced schools to turn over undocumented students to ICE. Opposed reforming California’s three-strikes law, which is the only one in the country to impose life sentences for minor felonies and incarcerates black people at 12x the rate as white people, three different times, even while her Republican opponent supported reform. Tried to deny a transgender inmate healthcare and endangered trans women by forcing them into mens prisons, leading to the rape and torture of at least one trans inmate. Appealed a judge ruling that the death penalty was unconstitutional and won on a technicality, resulting in continued executions. Supports the controversial DNA search technique that can be used on people even if they’ve not been charged with a crime. Supported the discriminatory practice of cash bail in court, until 2016. Protected serial child rapists by refusing to prosecute in the Catholic Church sex abuse scandal. Lied about her state’s solitary confinement to block a suit by inmates, claiming there was none in California when there were about 6,400 victims of the practice, which is considered torture. Opposed legislation that would require independent investigation of fatal police shootings despite criticism from many civil rights advocates including California’s Legislative Black Caucus. Opposed statewide implementation of police body cameras and ignored police brutality, multiple officers raping a teenager, and other officers sharing racist and homophobic messages, despite multiple requests from the public defender. Stood by silently as $730 million was spent on moving inmates to for-profit private prisons.And as cherry on the cake fully complicit in a horrible genocide, and you want to claim she would hypothetically be better in the future? LOL
You really disgust me. You are not better but worse.
It’s the hypocrisy that bothers me most, at least one side has the balls to say they’re fascists.
Unlike you cowardly worms pretending to be good while being absolute scum.
Hope you all get slow cancer.The US Empire is the world’s worst country. It’s the biggest exporter of genocide and terror, and the world’s biggest plunderer. Harris would maintain that exact same brutal system, domestically and internationally. It’s not hard to be better than them. Yes, Harris would send people to CECOT without trial, every imperialist president has done acts like that.
Chill out with the calling everyone to your left a child or a Russian bot, etc. It’s the peak of liberalism.
You’re not “forced” to do anything.
There are 3rd parties as always. You can find reasons and excuses not to vote for them but that’s all on you.
Glad you ended up with Trump.
Fascists and fascist-lite voters deserve it.What a juvenile take that doesn’t take into account reality at all. From Reddit are you? Go back.
right simpleton.
Go back to your interpretative dance with kibbutz Bernie
The problem here is structural. For president especially a 3rd party candidate is nothing more than a spoiler. It’s less so if they can win for the house or senate. I would whole heartedly agree with you if the Us had a parliamentary or ranked choice. But we don’t and until we do; with the demo crates it’s a slightly more likely, then just vote for the least fascist that has a chance to win. Use your 3rd party vote in the primaries.
a 3rd party candidate is nothing more than a spoiler.
And there we go with the excuses.
In non-banana republics with a normal political landscape and populations with spines there have been parties and candidates scoring 1-2 percent, then 10, then 60. Or the other way.
That’s how elections work, and nobody of those initial 1-2% voters gave up.
Since outside the US, nobody propagates that defeatist BS.But OC, this election is “the most important election in history and in our lifetime” so now is not the time to rdo such crazy things as not vote for a duopoly you supposedly don’t like but have since the beginning of your miserable country.
You have only yourself to blame and deserve zero sympathy.
On the contrary.
You’re like an arsonist that constantly burns houses and now cries because he managed to set his own home on fire.
Well burn baby burn.The US Empire will never pass ranked choice voting in a manner that allows for systemic change. The point of the political system is to perpetuate the economic system, and fixing the problems with society requires advancing to socialism and leaving capitalism behind.
I touch grass for one full day and miss this thread? Oh well…
At least you took a break, I bet it was starting to smell in there. Might have been your first in a whiiiiiile!
Hey hey don’t start with excuses. Russian/CCP bots don’t need to touch grass!
Oof, you caught me! lol
Even if I (non-us citizen) agree with the sentiment, I still think OP is a POS. Why? Check his profile. Fucking russian apologist.
.ml
What did you expect?
Looks like the bots found lemmy. This is posted by a literal Russian bot. Check it out.
And yet, still true.
The favorite excuse of colonialists: “But nonwesterners aren’t human”
Go extinct
Hey OP, you wanna go ahead and go to any neighborhood that’s been raided by ICE and tell them how the Dems are exactly just as bad as the GOP?
Hell, go tell a bunch of drag queens and trans people.
While you’re at it, go find some under aged girls who’ve been impregnated by adult men and tell them the Dems are just as bad as the GOP.
I’m sure it’ll resonate with all of them /s
While you’re at it, go find some under aged girls who’ve been impregnated by adult men and tell them the Dems are just as bad as the GOP.
Sure, which victim of Clinton’s should we start with?
you do know that lemmy has Marxists and tankies right? i wish there was a way i could not see comments and posts from .ml
There is, you can go back to reddit you crybaby
no thanks. i was banned there for saying the word nakba when talking about history.
Hey OP, you wanna go ahead and go to any neighborhood that’s been raided by ICE and tell them how the Dems are exactly just as bad as the GOP?
Obama Leaves Office As ‘Deporter-In-Chief’
Democrats tried so fucking hard to outflank the Republicans from the Right for eight long years. But as soon as they lost, its those damned leftists at fault for not voting harder.
Hell, go tell a bunch of drag queens and trans people.
I’ve got a trans friend who has more rotten things to say about Joe Biden than your eardrums can handle.
Hey hypocrite.
Want to tell all the deported and kids in cages under Genocide Joe how that was much better?
Or that bombing brown people everywhere in the world, droning weddings or aiding genocide of Palestinians is better bcs it’s under those Dems who have those famous ‘democratic values’ they’re always crying about?
Just say it like it is, libs only care about themselves.
You all didn’t give a fuck about what you did to the world since forever.
And you probably also don’t give a fuck about trans people either.
The problem is now the fascism you supported has come home, and the libs don’t like the taste of their own medicine.
That’s ALL that bothering you.Enjoy your karma, hope you get a lot of it.
Hey OP, you wanna go ahead and go to any neighborhood that’s been raided by ICE and tell them how the Dems are exactly just as bad as the GOP?
I’ll tell you.
This shit was already happening. Yes, it’s taken another step under Trump, but the incrementalism you all like to talk about occurred with Democratic fascists as well. What Trump is able to do now would be impossible if Democrats hadn’t seized on the illegal powers dreamed up by Clinton and Dubya and ran with them.
Clinton, while fucking his interns, invented ‘Don’t Ask Don’t Tell’ and did nothing about persecution of gay people, and in fact, he was the one who signed DOMA. He invented “peacekeeping actions” so he could make war without calling it that, and he did just that. He cut the social safety net wholesale, making Americans poorer, and doubled down on poverty with his ‘free trade’ policies that helped usher in the era of companies moving offshore and killing US jobs. Oh, and he was a regular on Epstein’s island and the Lolita Express.
Obama let police run roughshod in Ferguson and New York City, brutalizing victims of police violence and people who lost their homes and decided to participate in Occupy. He appointed Tom Homan and put kids in cages. He made torture explicitly extra-legal. He walked into Flint and performatively drank a glass of water. He dropped 26,000 bombs in the last year of his presidency and left office with American wars brewing in seven countries. We also learned under Obama that police departments in the US have black sites and his presidency was
kidnappingrenditioning people to black sites in foreign countries. He also ordered drone bombings that killed American citizens.We knew Biden was going to be shit when, in a time people wanted federal police reform, he mocked the change people wanted in his State of the Union address by calling for greater police militarization, and his presidency gave rise to ‘cop cities’. Even worse, it’s now possible for cops to hang out in a school that’s getting shot up, on camera, with zero consequences. After January 6 he did nothing meaningful to slow the evident rise of domestic fascism, showing a greater interest in keeping his scumbag son out of prison. He deported undocumented immigrants by the millions and continued the policy of caging kids. Biden earned the moniker ‘Genocide Joe’ for aiding and abetting the genocide in Israel, even when Israel escalated it into a manufactured famine, which is a war crime. Then he ran for president knowing he had dementia, paving the way for Trump’s second term, prioritizing his own ego over the country’s well-being.
This isn’t a ‘Democrats are better’ scenario. Most people just haven’t really paid attention to what Democrats do or have the short-term memory of a goldfish.
And before you try to argue they were powerless, consider that all three of these men had the presidency and control of Congress, just like Trump. They had all the power they needed to make real change. They just didn’t care.
“This is the problem with you Amerikkkan imperialists, you only care about your own people and don’t give a shit about anyone outside your country”
~(a paraphrase of) an actual reply I got one time when I shared this sentiment
that reply is entirely correct
That would be me, and it is truth
wanna go ahead and go to any neighborhood that’s been raided by ICE and tell them how the Dems are exactly just as bad as the GOP?
Those neighborhoors will tell you that ICE had been around since 2002 and while happy you’re finally getting with the program, despite the current administration’s best attempts, 2012 was the worst year so far right after the democrats had their governmental trifecta and with the dreamers bait and switch.
So yes, while different flavors, they have been equally bad.
go tell a bunch of drag queens and trans people.
Republicans despise them, Democrats love to use them. That isn’t necessarily better.
go find some under aged girls who’ve been impregnated by adult men and tell them the Dems are just as bad as the GOP.
Fucking yes, the big Epstein reveal is that it’s all of them. The Trumps and the Clinton’s.
Those neighborhoors will tell you that ICE had been around since 2002 and while happy you’re finally getting with the program, despite the current administration’s best attempts, 2012 was the worst year so far right after the democrats had their governmental trifecta and with the dreamers bait and switch.
So yes, while different flavors, they have been equally bad.
You are fucking delusional to the extreme.
While ICE has been attacking immigrants for decades, you got to be a god damn idiot to equate ICE operating under Dems compared to Trump where ICE NOW HAS A BUDGET LARGER THAN THE MARINES, IS COMPLETELY EXEMPT FROM ANY LEGAL ACTION BECAUSE TRUMP HAS THROWN OUT THE CONSTITUTION, RAMPIDLY BUILT CONCENTRATION CAMPS AT A RECORD PASTETHAT ARE MORE RESTRICTED TO THE PUBLIC THAN EVER, AND NOW ARE MASS ARRESTING LEGAL IMMIGRANTS AND CITIZENS ALIKE.
All while the rule of law has been entirely abandoned.
It was bad for immigrants before, it’s actual Hell for everyone now.
Not to mention it’s gotten so much worse that you can actually observe it on national economic data.
Republicans despise them, Democrats love to use them. That isn’t necessarily better.
I think any marginalized community would prefer having the wiggle room of being able to exist and organize under hollow virtue signals than ACTIVE AND RAPIDLY EXPANDING GENOCIDE.
Call me crazy, but one seems a bit better than the other.
Fucking yes, the big Epstein reveal is that it’s all of them. The Trumps and the Clinton’s.
Completely avoiding the point. Are you playing stupid or is this just how you are?
REPUBLICANS BANNED ABORTION
REPUBLICANS WANT TO BAN CONTRACEPTIVES
Dems, believe it or not, fucking didn’t.
The only people you are helping by spreading this “both sides” BULLSHIT is the fascists. Take Trump’s tiny cock out of your mouth and smell the shit around you.
ICE NOW HAS A BUDGET LARGER THAN THE MARINES, IS COMPLETELY EXEMPT FROM ANY LEGAL ACTION BECAUSE TRUMP HAS THROWN OUT THE CONSTITUTION, RAMPIDLY BUILT CONCENTRATION CAMPS AT A RECORD PASTETHAT ARE MORE RESTRICTED TO THE PUBLIC THAN EVER, AND NOW ARE MASS ARRESTING LEGAL IMMIGRANTS AND CITIZENS ALIKE.
The same can be said between Trump’s first term and Biden’ presidency. The level of funding and militancy isn’t a function of R vs D, but a function of time as they because increasingly less cost effective and require increasing force to attempt to maintain/increase the level of eliminations.
All while the rule of law has been entirely abandoned.
You’re delusional if you believe in the “rule of law”, that’s never been how the justice system has worked in the US.
It was bad for immigrants before, it’s actual Hell for everyone now.
Sorry you can no longer sleep through brunch and now have to face the realities that immigrants and others have been facing for decades.
Not to mention it’s gotten so much worse that you can actually observe it on national economic data.
… What? Can you clarify what you mean by this and what data? This feels like Facebook level finger pointing and not based on any actual data or proper analysis, but I’m happy to be proven wrong there.
I think any marginalized community would prefer having the wiggle room of being able to exist and organize under hollow virtue signals than ACTIVE AND RAPIDLY EXPANDING GENOCIDE.
Your “group” being spared genocide as a tool to influct genocide on others is not the “easy moral dilemma” you make it out to be.
REPUBLICANS BANNED ABORTION
The bipartisan nominated supreme court banned abortion during a democratic party trifecta.
Blaming the Republicans primarily for that is as asinine as blaming the Democrats primarily for the current government shutdown.
Dems, believe it or not, fucking didn’t.
No? So they’re just completely powerless and their votes were forced even though they really, really didn’t want to?
The only people you are helping by spreading this “both sides” BULLSHIT is the fascists.
The difference is who we say are fascists. Yes, the Republicans are fascist, but so are the Democrats.
Take Trump’s tiny cock out of your mouth and smell the shit around you.
If there’s one thing we can agree on it’s that the elephant in the room is absolutely covered in shit. However, I’m busy trying to take the fucking animals outside and am currently begging for you to please, please stop sucking donkey cock, realize the problems, and help.
It’s relieving to see common sense on the internet, have upvote. It’s very interesting how the uniparty seems to get majority vote every single election.
Are you one of those? Or do you just talk over them, depriving them of their voice?
If you have to vote between a candidate who wants to build 5 concentration camps and another candidate who wants to build one. You vote for the candidate that only wants to build only one concentration camp. Sure, both candidates are really bad, but one is considerably worse.
Therefore, we must still vote for the lesser of two evils. Not voting at all because both sides bad is how democracy dies, especially when democracy itself is under attack right now.
If the system is demanding that you support concentration camps, your main concern should be the destruction of the system by any means necessary, not the reduction of harm within it, and any measure that could be directed to the former instead of the latter probably should be.
If, hypothetically, the government demands that you choose between Hitler and Mussolini, the correct measures to be taking are ones directed at toppling the government.
If you have to vote between a candidate who wants to build 5 concentration camps and another candidate who wants to build one
So you support China in their liberation of Tibet from feudal serfdom? You support the Soviet Union destroying Nazism despite the excesses made in the gulag years? Or do you only extend this courtesy to capitalist imperialist regimes?
Obviously not. I don’t support building concentration camps in general, and China is a bad example since there’s no opposing party in Chinq. Admittedly, the example I gave was a bit on the extreme side. Regardless, I still disagree that if both sides are bad then they automatically are equalivent and thus voting is pointless as the meme seems to imply.
If Harris had won the 2024 election, do you honestly think she would be mass deporting immigrants without a trial, starting a trade war with China, attempt to cut funding for FEMA, etc? Sure, I’ll give you that she would have been content with the genocide in Gaza and would have been propping up the capitalist status quo. However, is that truly equilvent to what Trump has done in just his first year of his second term?
China is a bad example since there’s no opposing party in Chinq.
The historical example they were giving is of China invading and annexing Tibet, wherein the vast majority of the population was brutally enslaved and a small class of theocrats lived on top of a huge and ever-expanding mountain of corpses, upon which they sexually abused and murdered countless serfs besides the ones being tortured and killed by the basic mechanisms of the system under which they lived.
So the “opposing party” in this context is the other side of the war, the western-backed theocrats who wanted to perpetuate their slave state.
For the sake of not completely spamming your inbox, I’ll just reply to a few more things within this comment if that’s alright:
Huh, I actually didn’t know that, point taken. I didn’t know China had elections in general
It’s only maybe half-true to say China internally has opposing parties. There are other parties and many of them are dedicated entirely to pulling the government onto a different path from the current one, but those parties also are constitutionally barred from controlling high offices.
However, China does have elections and those elections are meaningful, because you don’t need separate parties to have meaningful elections. You believe that primaries are meaningful, right? In many places (e.g. NYC), they are much more meaningful than the general. Intra-party elections are meaningful in the same way and for the same reason that primaries are, because there are still differences within a party, even more so in a country where there is only one full party and party membership is massive and pretty accessible.
I think it’s perfectly fair to criticize various aspects about Chinese democracy, but neoliberals characterize it in a hopelessly slanted way.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t the senate controlled by the right? Wasn’t it them that pushed for mass deportations?
You are wrong, deportations picked up immediately and were high for his entire Presidency, especially his first term. Dems lost the House in 2010 and the Senate in 2014.
Obama is significantly liable for those loses too, because he immediately revealed that he was a complete fucking liar and didn’t want to actually pursue a progressive agenda. Even if this scapegoating were true, I’d still blame Obama because he had every opportunity to keep control of Congress but didn’t, and then it’s not like he actually opposed mass deportations.
I suppose you do have a point though, Harris wouldn’t need to be the only one who wins to make an actual difference, even if she would have just upheld the status quo that led to the rise in fascism. Still would have preferred that over what Trump is doing atm
I would never vote for Trump and would strongly discourage others from doing so, but there’s a meaningful sense in which his winning is less bad. Bear with me for a second: If Trump loses, he’s not actually the anti-christ who is thwarted, banished to hell, and then the Unique Threat to Our Democracy is gone. There will be more reactionary leaders who are as bad and worse who will immediately take his place. Holding him off from reclaiming office for one more term on a platform of adopting his old policies is not the victory some people depict it as.
What we need if we are taking Trump-like threats seriously is not to bail water, but to smash the Republican Party to atoms and scatter it to the wind. The Democrats can never do this, and over and over again insist that the thing to do is to adopt further and further right positions, to the point that you had Kamala commending the idea of the border wall construction project, merely saying it was mismanaged but she believed we should do something like it. That’s not hard-nosed pragmatism, that’s throwing red meat to reactionaries and supporting the cult of xenophobia to try to be Republican-lite, or more accurately to compete with 2024 Trump by becoming 2016 Trump (in terms of actual policy).
Kamala winning would have been catastrophic, not because she would have implemented worse policies than Trump, but because it would be a complete defeat of even berniecrat left-opposition in favor of a race to the bottom with Republicans of who can be more bigoted, as they get worse and then Democrats move to take up their old positions. The canonical answer in American politics would be even more cemented as “We need to get Republicans to vote for us by being racist,” and freaks like Ezra Klein who say we need anti-abortion Democrats.
If this is what the Democratic Party is, then they need to be destroyed just as much as the Republicans, because all they do is redirect “resistance” to becoming Republican on a slightly slower timetable. We need an actual left opposition to destroy reaction and the Democrats would rather lose to Trump than be that opposition, so we should be allowing them to take us hostage like we could ever give into enough demands from them that they will release us.
China is a bad example since there’s no opposing party in Chinq
There are eight opposing parties in China
Huh, I actually didn’t know that, point taken. I didn’t know China had elections in general
No investigation, no right to speak.
Your willingness to only engage in lesser-evilism with western genocidal regimes is very telling.
I think that’s a very reductionist opinion that ignores @pirate2377@lemmy.zip trying to honestly interact with you.
Stop being a prick, it doesn’t get you anywhere.
Sadly, western genocide will happen REGARDLESS of who I vote for, yeah. So, what do you propose I do about it other than protest and likely get arrested by ICE in a couple years for it? Attempt to sail aid to the people in Gaza and die along with them? I suppose it would preferable to get shot and die than live in a fascist America where my friends and family have to suffer, not to undermine what Gaza is going through though.
I suggest you don’t engage in lesser evilism with the west if you’re not willing to do with with geopolitics. Or if you’re willing to do it, then supoort China in the international geopolitics.
If Harris had won the 2024 election, do you honestly think she would be mass deporting immigrants without a trial, starting a trade war with China, attempt to cut funding for FEMA, etc?
Of course, look at her predecessor. Obama massively increased ICE, deportations, and did a pivot to asia.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t the senate controlled by the right? Wasn’t it them that pushed for mass deportations?
I suppose you do have a point though, Harris wouldn’t need to be the only one who wins to make an actual difference, even if she would have just upheld the status quo that led to the rise in fascism. Still would have preferred that over what Trump is doing atm
The US is not and has never been a democracy
Oh, you’re right. My mistake. I guess I’ll just stop voting or even protesting then :/
Lol cry about it
Please do stop protesting. I don’t want white supremacists protesting against the destruction of the usa empire, I want them behind bars.
Protesting against the actions of Donald Trump makes me a white supremist? Sorry, I didn’t realize.
You get told you’re wrong and immediately throw your toys out the pram
More so pointing out how silly it is. If the US wasn’t a democracy, then why vote? If they’re referring to the electrol college or lobbying, then yeah, I don’t support those and think it’s anti-democratic. We’d be in agreement.
Even strict dictatorships have elections to gauge how much support they have. They’re limited in how far they can go before spawning a revolution. Just because votes aren’t capable of inacting actual change against the ruling class’s interests doesn’t mean it isn’t useful. By voting for a third party you’re showing solidarity with the movement and demonstrating how the current system is a sham. By voting for the system you only legitimise it and give the rulers the excuse to say they’re acting legally and with the will of the people.
If the US wasn’t a democracy, then why vote?
It’s wild how people can look at sham elections where both parties serve the same oligarchs in other countries, but then think the biggest oligarchy there is, America, is somehow built different.
But do you mean "then why do people vote, or why should people vote? Cause the answer varies
If you have to vote between a candidate who wants to build 5 concentration camps and another candidate who wants to build one. You vote for the candidate that only wants to build only one concentration camp.
Well it’s a good thing that we didn’t have that binary choice then. My ballot had a few options, some of them even opposing concentration camps, so I got to vote against them.
I would vote a third party if it doesn’t just help the right win. If only we had ranked choice voting instead of the electrol college, then we could crub the 2 party system. Unfortunately, in the US, it’s either red team or blue team because until you can change the hearts and minds of millions of people, then it’s always going to be one of them.
because until you can change the hearts and minds of millions of people, then it’s always going to be one of them.
You’re admitting to being one of the millions of people that votes and therefore legitimises the construction of concentration camps.
You’re a fascist.
I mean, I believe nixus was talking about voting third party, which here in America is just another way of abstaining to vote. The concentration camp example was just to point out that to say one bad candidate against an objectively worse candidate doesn’t automatically mean they’re both equally as bad. I regret using concentration camps as an example though. Perhaps a better example would be if you had the choice of voting for either Benito Mussolini or Bill Clinton. Both candidates are bad, but if I vote for one of them, am I in the wrong to make sure Mussolini doesn’t win by voting for Bill Clinton?
The concentration camps are a perfect example. No one’s saying both sides are the exact same. They’re saying they both serve US imperialism. Case and point: one side wants 5 concentration camps, the other thinks that’s a little too much and we should settle for 1.
If you want to build concentration camps you’re a fascist. If you’re okay with a party wanting to build concentration camps or can look past it you’re a fascist. You wouldn’t accept someone in the 1930s saying “yeah what the nazis are doing with the Jews is bad but have you seen their treatment of animals? I’ll vote for them but I’m no Nazi.”
So, what do you suggest I do then as an alternative to voting in this scenario? I suppose I could spill the blood of the politicians that want to build concentration camps, but once again unless I change the minds of millions of people and start a full blown civil war, then the bloodshed will be pointless. I could also move away from America, but that’s assuming I could even afford to do that let alone be able to do it legally. The only power I have as an American citizen as of now is to vote. That’s the only power I have. Protesting will eventually just get me arrested or murdered once Trump completes his power grab.
You have more power than just voting every 4 years lmao. Get organised and start interacting with like minded people and get other people on your side. Every 4 years there’s 1540 days where you could be fighting fascism and you’re only doing it for 1.
I’m here for the comments 🍿
