Still a bad joke. If the custom ROMs can’t get past this it’s either dumb-phone or linux phone next. No compromise.
We won’t know for sure until they actually drop the code, but I’m more optimistic now that they’ve clarified that adb will still work to sideload. That means there’s still some code path in the package installer that doesn’t do this bullshit, so it should be pretty easy to remove it for the people used to working on custom ROMs.
That doesn’t help those of us users who don’t want to go through the hassles involved with trying to select a device that:
- Allows installation of custom ROMs
- Will not only currently have, but also retain long-term support of custom ROM developers
- Doesn’t have the inevitable instabilities and/or incompatibilities so often involved with such ROMs.
I don’t have the patience or time for that shit anymore - I just want a device that works as it should, while also allowing me to install whatever the fuck I want without the Nanny state’s approval.
This crap of Google’s is purely for show and doesn’t really solve anything. It’s a lame distraction from the fact they can’t (or won’t) make a fucking secure sandbox for apps like they should.
Absolutely. The person I replied to was talking about using a custom ROM, but I would certainly not recommend that for anyone who isn’t familiar with it already.
I would recommend everybody getting into custom ROMs, particularly those not familiar with it. Not learning how to unlock bootloaders and shit but people should know there’s more than two choices - IOS and whatever crazy frankenUI the various android vendors have cooked up while high on meth.
That’s a nice ideal, but we both know the vast majority of users aren’t up to the task. Especially when so many popular devices are locked down to prevent it. Even those who are capable of dealing with it (such as myself) just don’t have the time for it anymore - especially when we have to learn/figure out so much (how to do it, which ROM is going to work - as well as contain the features we want, how to deal with issues that may crop up like app compatibility, hardware that doesn’t function properly, etc.) just to accomplish something we’re only ever likely to do once in a blue moon. I used to love all the custom ROMs back in the day, but it’s become such a headache nowadays for anyone but the most hardcore to deal with.
Which is, of course, exactly how Google wanted things to go.
I believe they confirmed uncertified devices will not have these requirements, so technically degoogled Android should still be fine.
You don’t get Google services, but then again that’s also true of every other alternative.
It’s all jumping the gun for now. We’ll see where this goes.
That will still significantly hinder the development of independent apps if only a small niche proportion of people can install them.
Embrace, extend, extinguish
Yyyyes?
I mean, as opposed to what? Mainstream Linux phones? The guy is saying that if this goes through he may try dumbphones or Linux phones, I’m saying that degoogled Android may also be able to bypass the problem. How is what I’m saying in conflict with what you responded?
Sorry, I know I’m grumpy, but on this subject it’s been super frustrating the degree to which people just respond to isolated stimuli like a dog seeing a ball go by. Like, zero ability or attempt to grasp context or meaning, just see a word, type the thing they wanted to say regardless of whether it fits. It gets grating after a while.
You say that people who use degoogled phones will be unaffected by this measure and downplayed the impact those measures will have on them. My point is that they will be hurt by it regardless.
If Google makes side loading of apps impossible unless you have a degoogled phone, projects that need side loading to function like F-Droid and other open source apps that do things Google doesn’t like will see their already small user base collapse to only the niche audience that has a degoogled phone. I don’t expect those projects and apps to maintain the level of support they currently have if it is for such a reduced audience.
As a bare minimum it is a blatant attempt by Google to gain even more control over the entire Android ecosystem and I would absolutely not say that we should wait and see where this is going like you did.
I said it because it’s… true? Well, in that this is what they announced anyway. Also, relevant to the post I was responding to.
So how is it downplaying anything? It’s not downplaying it, it’s not exaggerating it, it just… is.
Nobody is arguing with you on this being bad, friend. You just want to be mad at a shill and because you couldn’t find one you’re doing your bit at the first person that said anything other than “Google sucks” even if it was on an unrelated subject.
Don’t do that. That’s a bad thing to do.
All I did is expand on the other negative side effects of this measure that weren’t mentioned so people know that the consequences might much worse than what you lead on. This is by no means an accusation, more like a much needed precision as whether you like it your not your statement was downplaying the consequences Google’s actions even if you weren’t aware of it at the time.
You immediately took that as a personal attack and accusation of being a shill. Go read back my original comment and see I did nothing of the sort and simply provides additional info. I’m getting pretty tired of those poorly disguised and uncalled for insults you’ve been throwing my way ever since too.
Go sleep over it and read this all again with a rested head.
Yeeeah, maybe take your own advice there.
For the record, we’re still not disagreeing, technically. In that “All I did is expand on the other negative side effects of this measure that weren’t mentioned” is 100% “I couldn’t find a shill to argue with, so I had the argument all by my lonesome whether it made sense or not”.
It’s still bad.
Google have already pulled the Pixel-line from the AOSP device tree. I’ve read that their security commits to the open repo will slow significantly down. They’re talking about moving to a unified OS along with CHROMEOS (Still. Again.)
AFAIK, all custom ROMs are based on AOSP. I’m not optimistic.
Yeah, no, it’s not gonna be good.
But neither is Linux on phones.
Again, this is responding to the guy saying he’s willing to go to dumbphones or Linux phones. If he’s that desperate/aggressively ready to use sub-par solutions, degoogled Android IS an option and it will probably be more functional, despite not being good.
ready to use sub-par solutions
I’m already on a degoogled android ROM, I consider it the superior solution.
Go SailfishOS! Ironically enough, you can sideload apks there even though it’s not Android.
Last time I checked (granted, years ago) experimental linux phone builds supported more devices than SOS. How’s it doing nowadays, moving forward?
Some 5 or so devices are supported officially, and many community ports.
linux phone
I know that given this community, a lot of people are going to be on a Linux phone already.
But there are some very real drawbacks to Linux phones in 2025. It won’t be a practical replacement for most people.
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The hardware is not remotely-competitive with high-end hardware that Android can run on.
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Everything I’ve seen has suggested that power usage isn’t as good, probably because Android has had shit-tons of engineers working on cutting power usage for many years.
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Some of the reason that I’d want to use a phone in the first place is for access to the Android app ecosystem. Like, that one app that your employer or bank insists you use or you want to use to update firmware on some Bluetooth device because the vendor doesn’t support
fwupd. Maybe it’s possible to use Waydroid and a Linux machine for some of that; I don’t know about all. -
GNU/Linux has a large software library, but a lot of it is not designed around a touch UI.
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One major benefit of Android is that it does a lot to help eliminate a couple things that the general population has had trouble with. The harm from installing malware is mitigated by more-or-less isolating apps. A lot of users just don’t understand the concept of managing memory usage; Android just suspends apps transparently. A lot of users apparently don’t have a great understanding of a filesystem, and the Android app ecosystem tends to hide the filesystem.
And you may not care for your own use, but without scale, it’s hard to get support from hardware vendors and such.
That being said, I remember 25 years back or so when Linux was “never going to be a real server OS”, when it was never going to have games, when it was never going to make it big in the embedded world, and so forth. It often took time, but it inexorably showed up. And the kernel, at least, made it big on smartphones. GNU/Linux can be pretty hard to stop in new markets. But…it can also take a while to get there.
I agree with all this bullets and would love to add one more: the Linux user experience and community. You have to accept that your operating system will be an ongoing project in and of itself, and that the Linux community is not newbie friendly and has a lot of troubleshooting deadends.
Linux on the desktop still isn’t all sunshine and rainbows. I can’t imagine a phone being any better. I still had to sneakernet WiFi drivers onto a laptop with a new Linux install, this year. Same shit I was doing 15 years ago.
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I love your stance!
On an unrelated note, Google’s blog post also is soliciting feedback from the public on these changes.
“Please let us know if you have any feedback or questions about the verification requirements.”
Google will ignore this unless there’s an absolute fuck-ton of backlash over it (and with so much currently under Republican control, even that’s quite iffy), so get everyone you can to give it to them. If you have any ideas on how to get even the corporate boot-lickers against this, please spread it far and wide. Quickly.
Shatter this corporation.
It’s not their platform. It’s your computer. That’s what the money was for.
I wonder if Epic games will sue them again. Epic has their own side loaded APK for the mobile Epic Games Store.
Wasn’t this prevented by the last lawsuit?The verification is supposedly not linked to play protect at all. Presumably Epic will be a verified developer even without being on Google Play and therefore their apk’s will remain installable regardless of distribution method. If Epic were blocked then I imagine they’d absolutely have grounds to sue.
The Republicans have managed to insert enough of their sycophants throughout the American legal system - most notably including the Supreme Court - to ensure corporate interests will always win in the end going forward. The invasion of the Supreme Court is especially insidious because those are lifetime appointments, and they’ve ensured their recent additions to it are young enough to stay in place for a very long time.
This has already had effects in allowing Trump get away with literal murder by them expanding the power of the Oval Office to absurd amounts with recent “decisions.”
All federal judge appointments are for life.
That means all those courts of appeals judges and lower court judges he appoints are also there until they leave or get better jobs higher in the judiciary food chain.
Ugh. I was unaware, although I guess I should have realized it from the fact they have to be vetted by the Senate. Can you tell I’m no legal eagle? I hate how laws are treated by most people as if they’re the very definition of what’s right and wrong when so many of them blatantly aren’t.
But what about EU?
In the next decade Google will receive a strongly worded letter about it. In just under two decades Google will be forced to stop doing that.
adb requiring registration in less than 3 years.
guess im stopping updating my phone on android 15 and security update september congrats google
Or just install lineageos
i have an s24 so that’s not possible.
They keep trying to lock it down more and more. Why do they even think that’s a good idea? The entire reason Android is successful in the first place is that it’s an open system, so it can be easily and cheaply adapted for various products. If they’re gonna just turn it into iOS (Google skin) and shove more and more functionality into random proprietary components, I wouldn’t be surprised if companies start forking Android or just do their own thing like Huawei is now.
Probably the 3rd party app stores, the rules the judges gave them in America.
Why do they even think that’s a good idea?
At some point becoming a "registered developer " will become a source of profit for Google.
I don’t think so, most of the open source apps on fdroid are already on the play store
When they squeeze out the option of installing from the ad-free sources like F-Droid, and everybody who isn’t techie enough to use ADB has to install from the Play Store, then yes - Google will be increasing profits.
Not quite what the other commenter was saying, I’ll grant, but effectively the same end result.
I simply don’t think it’s a move related to money, or at least not directly related to money.
I open the play store less than once a month, if they remove fdroid I guess I’ll open it twice a month? How much money can they make for the 2 rows of sponsored apps they show me (which I don’t tap anyway) in the 30 seconds necessary to find an app and press install?
People installing apks outside the play store are already a minority. Beside myself I think I know 1 person who may be using fdroid, maybe 2
I guess it could be a really dumb monetary choice? You never know with corporations
I get that you can only relate your personal experience, and that many people such as yourself don’t know enough about things outside their personal experience to factor them into their perspectives on things.
But, really?!? Just because you don’t do those things - let alone frequently - doesn’t mean there aren’t plenty of others who actually do.
ETA: Not only that, but I think you’re missing something as regards to ad revenue. The apps installed from Play Store virtually always come with ads added for Google to profit from. Not so much on F-Droid.
So you think there’s a lot of people who just browse the play store everyday?
If my personal experience is not enough what about yours? Have you done some kind of research?
About ads that’s just a personal decision by the developer and Google has nothing to do with it. Most developers just publish the same fdroid version on the play store without ads
i think there are quite the range of users, and that neither of us should assume our personal experiences are “the norm.” That said, why do you think there’s been so much discussion about this? There’s obviously a good amount of people concerned, seemingly for good reason.
I’ve not done any significant comparisons between the two app sources, but in what little experience I do have seeing apps in both locations I’m going to guess about a third of those from smaller developers (i.e. not the Mozillas of the world) had ads in the Play Store incarnations. That’s a completely unscientific personal guess, however.
Not that it’s relevant, anyway - the point is having options taken away without legitimate reason for doing so. Google’s own history with malware regularly being found on the Play Store proves that their “justification” is control-freak bullshit. If this is allowed, who knows what other profit-enhancing rules Google will impose further down the road when they’ve eliminated most any escape routes? Open source devs may have to choose to use ads in order just to pay for the privilege of being installable without having to dig too deeply into their own pockets.
How much money can they make for the 2 rows of sponsored apps they show
That wasn’t my point.
If they can lock it down so only registered devs can put apps on the system, then some MBA is eventually going to start charging devs a registration fee.
Is there currently a way to run adb from the phone itself? This should be possible, right?
Without rooting, there’s Shizuku for some limited rights access. Otherwise I know there (was?) a way to connect another phone via USB to act as a the “development PC” to issue ADB commands from, but I’ve never personally done it so I can’t tell you much more than that.
ETA: Wireless debugging is a thing, too. It being enabled (along with actually being connected to some kind of Wi-Fi) is required for Shizuku to start up (& can be shut off without ill effect once you’ve started Shizuku).
Interesting, might be a solution if Google doesn’t shut it off somehow.
Yep, I believe Shizuku will get a lot of new users.
So there’s nothing new here other than a link to their Q&A video.
And perhaps more importantly a subtle reminder that the Q&A blog post in question includes a link to a Google survey for developers you can freely add feedback to by entering your email.
Following the links instead of reacting to the headline has its perks.
I feel like googles hands may be getting forced on this. There is a growing authoritarian movement across the globe and android sideloading was one of the ways to avoid surveillance as that info was mostly private and offline. I wonder if they are being forced by shithole regimes (like USA now) to go in on the government verifying all apps or get blocked in that country for bypassing “national security.” (Wouldn’t surprise me if the UK and USA were two of those countries)
Remember LaLiGa said last year that Google should have the ability to remotely remove piracy apps from someone’s device without their permission?
I admire the generosity you’re giving Google here, but even if fascism wasn’t on the rise globally, I could see them doing this just for the all-important purpose of making more money. Rent-seeking by way of requiring an account (and soon after, a credit card) to access a feature that was once open and free.
Google has been killing free services for over a decade now, I have to imagine they’ve long decided to monetize and advertise on every possible channel and wavelength.
What if the big money makers behind Google are the same fascist, that are backing Trump now? 🤯
Yeah, that’s our reality. I was only speaking in hypothetical.
Then why pre-comply? Fight for the user and be seen publicly being forced to suck. Instead it’s obvious that they actively choose to suck.
What google wants the money so of course they’re going to bend over to whatever backroom demands they have possibly been given
Boycott the hell out of android!
As long as you don’t go to iOS, sure. Hopefully Linux phones will get a much needed development boom.
Well, I’m likely going to iOS. I need to bank on my phone and those apps only work on iOS and android. If I’m going to be in a walled garden, I’m going to choose the nicer one. Hopefully google gets the message, but I have my doubts.
Edit: y’all can go ahead and keep downvoting every time I mention this, I still haven’t seen a good solution for doing anything else that actually works for me. At least I’ll get a better camera out of it, though I will miss my back button. I just dont see the point of staying on certified android if fdroid and many community apps are going away. It was the primary reason I chose to leave ios for android in the first place.
iOS has been this locked-down since 2007.
I see “I need banking on my phone” repeated often. Is this because you prefer banking on a phone, because yoy find it convenient to be able to bank on the phone, or because you actually are unable to do any banking through a browser? If the latter, are there no other banks than the one you are currently using that offer browser-based banking?
If so, that sounds nightmarish and I really hope my country will not follow suit here anytime soon… Could you tell us which country you reside in (totally cool if you won’t)?
Here in Brazil, banks require you to install a literal spyware and go physically to the bank to allow it, if you want to do banking on your pc, while some banks don’t even support it. Meanwhile, the same banks will allow you to just download the mobile app and use it with minimal requirements and no need to go physically anywhere. Then they say that people just don’t want to do banking on pcs anymore.
If so, that sounds nightmarish
It is
USA, and there are quite a few banks that only allow digital check deposits through their official app and not the website. Not having access to those is a dealbreaker for me, and I simply dont have the time or patience to switch banks and lose out on the advantages I chose my existing banks for, just to be able to switch phones. It would be a lot of work to keep the feature set I already have. Additionally, these banking apps tend to check if a phone has been rooted or jailbroken and will disable themselves if they see evidence of such.
If you’re not willing to fight this crap then you have no right to complain down the road when they back you into a corner you don’t want to be in.
If you’re not part of the solution, then you’re likely part of the problem.
I can only fight so many battles, amigo
I get that and agree, but that’s what they’re banking on to continue taking away your rights bit-by-bit. Where’s the line you’re not willing to let them cross? You’d better start defending it well before they get to that point, or their momentum will just run you over by the time they finally get there.
If I’m going to be in a walled garden, I’m going to choose the nicer one.
Nicer looking (maybe), but even more aggressively locked down.
So, what is your alternative suggestion?
I’m strongly considering the switch to something like PostmarketOS. Also, I’m trying to donate small amounts to a few Linux phone projects, and am asking others to do the same. Even $5 here and there could be the difference needed to accelerate mobile Linux to a better state.
Every little bit helps. Thank you for thinking ahead!
Buy an used pixel and install graphene.
Have graphene devs announced where they stand about this situation? They’re security minded, not necessarily for freedom of choice, so they may go either way
They’re working with a different manufacturer, they don’t seem too worried about Google screwing around with everyone. They can always replace any Android components if need be.
