• Yerbouti@sh.itjust.works
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    17 days ago

    My problem with this is, who gets to decide where bourgeoisie start and ends. Because for the majority of the world, the average American is a selfish bourgeois with a big house and to cars, who thinks oppression is when the gas price rise. Kill all the bourgeois fine, but who gets to decide who lives and who dies?

    • daltotron@lemmy.ml
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      15 days ago

      Because for the majority of the world, the average American is a selfish bourgeois with a big house and two cars, who thinks oppression is when the gas price rise.

      I mean I fucking live here and that’s pretty much my assessment as well to be honest. Maybe not your average american if we’re working on like, who’s right just based on home ownership statistics, but certainly, that’s not really an invalid perception.

    • davel@lemmy.mlOP
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      17 days ago

      This is two questions in one. Cowbee is addressing who is and isn’t bourgeois.

      As to who lives and who dies: nobody has to die, but history has proven that the capitalist class won’t relinquish power peacefully. They will utilize state violence to retain control of the state and to protect their private property.

    • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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      17 days ago

      Class is about relation to the Means of Production, not simple wealth. The US is largely made up of labor aristocracy who benefit from Imperialism, like you pointed out, but aren’t bourgeoisie.

          • Yerbouti@sh.itjust.works
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            17 days ago

            So business owners must die got you. If I do some freelancing sometimes, should I kill myself? Asking for a friend.

            • noscere@sh.itjust.works
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              17 days ago

              if I do some freelancing sometimes, should I kill myself? Asking for a friend.

              It seems that you are intentionally missing the point. If you are selling your own labor, you my friend are working class.

              • Yerbouti@sh.itjust.works
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                17 days ago

                You guys are all really smart and interesting, seriously, but I’m still not convince one can just decide to kill a CEO because he considers them to be part of the bourgeoisie. My original question, is who gets to decided where to draw the line.

            • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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              17 days ago

              No, I literally stated that the goal isn’t to kill people, but collectivize property. If your only way of dealing with alternative viewpoints is to lie about them, then you should reconsider your own viewpoints.

              • Yerbouti@sh.itjust.works
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                17 days ago

                My comment was going back to the original question: if it’s ok to kill this CEO, who decided who else it’s ok to kill.

                My problem is that, while I fully agree that capitalism is the principal cause of injustice in the modern world, taking justice into one’s own hands through violence will only lead to more violence. The day citizens as a whole are ready for a real social revolution, I might re-evaluate my position on violence, but the majority of US voters have just elected, again, Epstein’s closest friend as president so I doubt that what they want is a way out of capitalism.

                • MonkeMischief@lemmy.today
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                  16 days ago

                  I agree with you somewhat and I don’t like how much downvote spam you’re getting. You bring up some good points we ought to be mindful of.

                  Right now it seems very clear who the oppressors are, but the scary thing about reactive movements is that even if they accomplish their goal, they tend to seek to justify themselves indefinitely before everyone gets bored and it dissolves.

                  Everybody wants a revolution on paper, but things get messy and blurry once the powder keg goes off, and people en masse would be looking for the next enemy, the next oppressor, that must be hunted down to finally secure Utopia.

                  While I’m an anarchist and want the “ownership class” to answer for their wicked ways, I also don’t think a bunch of independent actors picking targets and gunning them down based solely on their own justification is an ideal solution. Even if I understand why it happens and don’t defend the perpetrators that push people to such extremes in the first place.

          • slartibartfast@lemm.ee
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            17 days ago

            Except others above are literally calling the middle class bourgeoisie.

            Maybe you should all start reading, because it’s obvious this community isn’t politically savvy enough to understand the words it throws around.