Another difference. Republicans just convinced Europe that the USA cannot be trusted anymore as a commercial and defence party, and new deals should be made with the rest of the world to move away from the Dollar.
No, that one belongs in the shared space too. It was Biden who literally bombed the infrastructure that made it possible for Germany to meet its energy needs without reliance on buying US oil/lng. Who froze all foreign assets that belonged to Afghanistan, essentially stealing billions of dollars that belonged to the Afghani people? Biden. Who froze all Russian assets and tried to make it illegal on a global scale to do business with “the bad guy” state? Biden. And while you may hate Russia if you’re a typical propagandized westerner, that doesn’t mean most of the rest of the world, particularly global south countries, do as well.
From 3 years ago:
“With Russia losing access to its foreign currency reserves, a message has been sent to all countries that they can’t count on these money stashes to actually be theirs in the event of tension. As such, it may make less and less sense for global reserve managers to hold dollars for safety, given that they could be taken away right when they’re most needed. Russia isn’t the first country to get this lesson in recent months. The Biden administration’s move to seize Afghanistan’s cash assets and prevent their access by the Taliban was another recent signal that reserves can be frozen.”
That was all thanks to the Democrats during the Biden regime. Trump is putting as many nails into that coffin as he can, but we shouldn’t pretend Republicans are the only ones responsible for showing the world that the dollar is dangerous and the US cannot be trusted.
No man, sorry. European here and before this last Trump term nobody cared about the US, nor knew what people did over there.
Now we see all the craziness from Harvard to ICE, and the nonsense of vaccines and Medicare. Some people and companies are actively seeking alternatives to American products, we are talking about an European tech stack for the first time, a multi billion program just started to replace US in defence, there are funds specifically designed to attract American scientists, the EU is coming for startups too, and intense chats with Canada, China and others try to replace the US market.
You are free to believe that Dem were the same, but I can assure you that nothing like the last 6 months pushed the EU to break up with the US and stand up alone. Which is great for us in the old continent.
To tell the full story though, there are some EU groups that still try to tighten the bonds with the US. I’m talking about ECR and the Patriots with leaders such as Meloni and Wilders. They are the far right xenophobic homophobic nazi-fascist area that are basically a noisy minority that a few years ago was all for Putin.
Europeans may be a bit slow on the uptake, considering much of Europe is still imperial core and it’s all still the global north, but just because European liberals have been struggling to let go of the propaganda that the U.S. is a benevolent force for “order” in the world doesn’t mean that it is suddenly Trump alone that has irrevocably damaged U.S. soft power as well as a positive image of the U.S. in Europe.
and the nonsense of vaccines and Medicare
More examples of issues that were major in the “discourse” under Biden (and earlier). Come on.
Some people and companies are actively seeking alternatives to American products, we are talking about an European tech stack for the first time, a multi billion program just started to replace US in defence, there are funds specifically designed to attract American scientists, the EU is coming for startups too, and intense chats with Canada, China and others try to replace the US market.
And a lot of this takes longer planning than just the 6 months Trump has been in office again. You may not have been aware of it, but many were (I may not be a European, but I have been speaking with plenty of them especially since February of '22). The U.S. has been advertising the fact that its is tightening its leash on its vassals (you Europeans) for a while now, which in turn is unintentional but unconcealable admission that its empire is struggling. Those with eyes to see it, and there are many, most certainly have been watching since long before Trump. I won’t argue that Trump hasn’t ramped it up in terms of how blatant it is with his overt buffoonery and open fascism (as opposed to the Democrat’s false pretense of not being fascist), but to say it’s something that the Democrats do not share in, or haven’t deeply contributed to just as Trump has, well you’re burying your head in the sand.
I honestly don’t mean offense by this because it is so heavily dependent on what you hear in your MSM, but you and those who think this is new are slow on the uptake when compared to Europeans who closely follow this sort of thing, and Europe on the whole considering its relationship to US imperialism is going to be slow on the uptake compared to the rest of the world. And if we’re talking about the rest of the world beyond Europe already knowing these things, well let me just say: BRICS+. But honestly, if you think that even European leaders didn’t take a major fucking lesson from the blowing up of Nordstream, you’re… well, I guess just living under the same rock most of the population who gets their news from major outlets are living under - still doesn’t change the fact that the absolute dismantling of U.S. soft power and power projection (as “defenders” or as a country with whom deals and promises will be kept) is 100% a bipartisan project.
One characteristic of the European politics is that it’s slow. Painfully slow. With 27 countries with veto power and different interests it is certain that at any time you will have any possibility on the table together with its opposite.
Making an EU independent from the US has been certainly a dream for several groups since decades. The idea never got much traction because it seemed more convenient to go in the direction of a single market with the US for some kind of goods.
That was true until Trump’s second term with the tariffs, the NATO power play, and the BS around Greenland. Now there is no doubt that the EU should seek independence from the US and seek agreements with Canada and China first. The only question is how quickly it should be done because some countries (like Germany, Italy and Greece) have more to lose than others and there is the issue with Ukraine.
That said, you are free to think that with Biden it was all the same (or even worse).
One characteristic of the European politics is that it’s slow. Painfully slow.
The glacial pace of European politics helps prove my point. The fact that the pace is slightly quickening may or may not be because of Trump - like I said, I certainly wouldn’t argue against his undeniable increasing of the already rapidly deteriorating global image of the US as being trustworthy, but the whole point is that that deterioration was already happening when he got into office. Your original position is that it was not, that the Europeans feeling that the US cannot be trusted anymore and that the image of the dollar’s supremacy was waning, that all of that rests entirely on the shoulder of the Republicans when that is just demonstrably not true.
That said, you are free to think that with Biden it was all the same (or even worse).
You’re shifting the goalposts a bit there, since I never claimed it was “the same” only that it was already clearly well underway, which I have maintained throughout. Yes, I am free to recognize the objective reality of the situation, just as you are free to, for whatever odd reason, push against it to mistakenly insist that Trump is some sudden and unique outlier in the collapse of US image and power projection when that has demonstrably been going on since before him and will continue after, even if he is ramping up the rate of deterioration.
It’s funny because while we both acknowledge that we can have different opinions, you imply that mine is totally wrong.
Before Trump 2 the US was an ally, the cornerstone of NATO, the place where you want to go to have some kind of career, and so on. We can argue that something changed a bit over the decades, but America was always America. Even during Trump’s first term, for us at least, it was business as usual (despite lots of negative forecasts).
In the last few months all that certainty became questionable at least. I see a remarkable shift in politics, public opinion, and risk assessment at work. “Going European” is a widespread idea. Replacing the US in defence is now for the first time in history a funded project with an end date and clear objectives, including nuclear defence. Quite a few websites emerged to help consumers “buy European” or “check if it’s American”. For the first time in my life, boycotting US is no more something for rebellious teenagers full of ideologies, and people are at work to create here those things that we used to “just buy” from the US. The EU put on the table “the bazooka”: a legal instrument created to kick out China from the continent and that now some (like France) want to use against Trump.
But yeah, you can think that it all started years ago and that I have a secret agenda to defend Biden. Sure, why not?
you imply that mine is totally wrong.
As opposed to fucking what? Implying their own opinion is wrong? Implying that two mutually exclusive things are simultaneously true? The very definition of having an opinion means you think opposing opinions are wrong!
it’s slow unless it’s about increasing military spending and support for Israel, then it’s very fast!
European here and before this last Trump term nobody cared about the US, nor knew what people did over there.
I’m also European and this is bullshit lmao
Can you mention past American politics that affected the EU, excluding wars? Anything that sparkled debates and concerns at the level of Trump’s tariffs or declarations about NATO?
excluding wars?
Why? Why should wars be excluded?
I say that, before Trump’s mess, in the EU we didn’t care much about what happened in the US or the decision that were taken there, except for wars or exceptional events like 9/11. Am I wrong?
Yes. But how are you justifying that caveat?
Who froze all Russian assets and tried to make it illegal on a global scale to do business with “the bad guy” state? Biden. And while you may hate Russia if you’re a typical propagandized westerner, that doesn’t mean most of the rest of the world, particularly global south countries, do as well.
So you condone genocide as long as it’s done by “communists”. got it.
???
That’s borderline incoherent
sure, explain in detail what part is incoherent
It’s one sentence, and that sentence is incoherent.
What genocide and what communists?
- Noam Chomsky: Russia is fighting more humanely than the US did in Iraq
- Russians Welcomed as Liberators in Many Eastern Ukrainian Cities Contrary to Western Media Depictions
- UN report on 2014-16 killings in Ukraine highlights “rampant impunity”
- U.N. Court to Rule on Whether Ukraine Committed Genocide
I fucking hope, but we already seen that at 1st Trump term and after Biden was elected entire EU again got back to licking US boot, including something as unbelivable as fully allowing nordstream sabotage.
I don’t know what to believe about Nordstream, but I’m not even mad if that accelerates the transition out of fossil fuel.
It don’t though, it just rises the price of energy because the gas still flows, even more than before, just from USA, Norway and yes, sill Russia, even more of it, but through middlemen. The sabotage also caused significant ecological catastrophe in the Baltic.
About the sabotage itself you have three versions available:
- Truth, that USA bombed it, possibly with participation of Norway (note above paragraph, curiously the very same countries that gained the most on it, qui bono, eh?)
- USA version, where Ukraine did it, despite lacking means
- Official German/EU version, that is no version, because both above versions means that Germany is either vassal (ver1) or war ally (ver2) of country which attacked Germany in a biggest peacetime sabotage in German history.
Didn’t Biden basically announce the US was gonna do it before it happened?
Yup, and immediately after Polish Foreign Minister Sikorski, closely related to atlanticist circles, thanked USA for that.
Isn’t he married to Anne Applebaum?
Yes, as i mentioned, closely related to atlanticist circles.
It made it painfully clear to the public opinion how much society relies on gas.
Unfortunately the general public doesn’t understand long term reasoning: nor climate change, nor energy independence. If it doesn’t happen right now, it’s ignored by most people. The high spike in price worked really well to open a debate to support more renewables or nuclear power.
Consider that even now, after all that happened, the EU has a noisy minority trying to shoot down alternatives to gas.
FYI: in the EU we don’t play the “it was Biden vs it was Trump” game. We stop at “it was the US”. Besides marginal sympathy for some presidents or over the top ridiculous facts, US politics is not that visible or interesting here.
Bullshit. German politics is riddled with the same talking points as the US. Just today i read a german article talking about a “german roe v wade”
Of course, also in the EU there are far right groups like ECR and Patriots. It doesn’t mean that they rule though.
BTW, I struggle to imagine Germans discussing certain topics using American terms.
In seiner Stellungnahme gegenüber „t-online.de“ führte Reimer weiter aus, dass er Brosius-Gersdorf, deren Wahl vor einer Woche aufgrund mangelnder Unterstützung innerhalb der Unionsfraktion ausgesetzt worden war, als Aktivistin wahrnehme, „die über eine Neuinterpretation des Grundgesetzes ein deutsches ,Roe v. Wade‘ erreichen will“. Darin sehe er einen „Bruch mit der gesamten bisherigen Rechtsprechung des Bundesverfassungsgerichts zu Art. 2 Abs. 2 GG“. Jener Artikel besagt: „Jeder hat das Recht auf Leben und körperliche Unversehrtheit. Die Freiheit der Person ist unverletzlich. In diese Rechte darf nur auf Grund eines Gesetzes eingegriffen werden.“
Isn’t Germany pro-genocide across the political spectrum?
Its funny when Eurobros pretend they’re not US lackeys.
If that was the case, why does Trump feels sooooo cheated by Europeans?
He says that because you weren’t paying as much tribute as he would like, which is why he ordered you to increase military spending and y’all went and did it, and then had Mark Rutte kiss his ass in appreciation. 😂
Republicans just convinced Europe that the USA cannot be trusted anymore
FYI: in the EU we don’t play the “it was Biden vs it was Trump” game. We stop at “it was the US”.
What?
What what?
You literally just said that it was because of Republicans that the EU soured on the US and now you’re telling me that in the EU you don’t look at which party is in charge but at the US as a whole. Do you not see how these statements are contradictory?
I doubt that US extortion will be reversed in any future DNC election victory. Only antagonism, and resulting colapse of US, which has yet to be manifested, will result in reversal.
libs be believing dem politicans lip service when they never do anything about it, but the one time their politician says something and actually does it, they don’t believe it.
When you put it that way, it is pretty unbelievable that a US politician would follow through on a promise 🤔
Which is a good thing
The uni-party trash system.
You don’t have to agree with everything, but there’s a lot of truth in this diagram. Both are serving AIPAC, both don’t care about woking class, both want to collapse the US with infinite military spending,…
At least Democrats want to slowly slide us into a monarchy. MAGA wants it NOW!
do you want cancer to kill you now or do chemo and live for another 20 years?
What a country…
*3rd world shithole country
That’s an insult to all 3rd world shithole countries. At least they’re trying.
Wow, “don’t bother voting” agitprop this early? This is going to be a big election!
“America is one party state. However in the typical American exuberance, they have two of them”
We have to have two, to keep the masses fighting, thinking one will bring change the other can’t. It takes the eye off the ball from the oligarchs, industrial war machine, the three rogue letter spy agencies, and most of all the Zionist influence. Brain-dead voters will scream across the isle at each other, “but my candidate is slightly better than your candidate!” Logic has left the room.
The experiment is over. The results were not great.
Hostility to Russia, Iran & China
Now we have to guess which country’s propaganda machine is responsible for this post.
It’s Russia. It’s always Russia.
I’m not from the USA. Russia is absolutely trying to create problems in the USA though, and the rest of the west:
There’s a world of difference between “Russia has propaganda” and “this post and anything like it that criticises the West is Russian propaganda”
Also, Wikipedia isn’t a reliable source.
Wikipedia isn’t a reliable source.
luckily it cites actual sources unlike some russian trolls i know of
Then you should cite those sources.
russian trolls
Warmed over Judeo- Bolsherik conspiracy
Then you should cite those sources.
if you had taken half a second to read what i wrote instead of copy pasting from your tankie .txt file of pre made responses, you’d realize the sources are cited in wikipedia
Warmed over Judeo- Bolsherik conspiracy
look, the russian troll even went to school and knows some history of his mother land!
if you had taken half a second to read what i wrote instead of copy pasting from your tankie .txt file of pre made responses, you’d realize the sources are cited in wikipedia
And if you had taken half a second to read what I wrote, rather than copy pasting the standard reddit shitlibs insults, youd realize that you should cite those sources, not expect other people to dig for them.
But we all know you didn’t actually check the sources did you? You just trust it because Wikipedia said it.
look, the russian troll even went to school and knows some history of his mother land!
You’re not beating the neo-nazi accusations with this one.
lol you’re the meme!
If someone doesn’t support the Iraq war they must be a terrorist sympathizer.
What does your comment have to do with my comment?
What are your thoughts on the 1999 War in Dagestan?
What are your thoughts on the sand war of 1962? Motherfucker we’re talking about “Russia is influencing the world into hating Iran and China” dumbfuck what the hell does this even mean
No, my comment was about Russia influencing the world into trying to not hate Russia, Iran and China.
Then the guy above me replied something about the Iraq war.
Motherfucker, what the hell did that even mean?
No, my comment was about Russia influencing the world into trying to not hate Russia, Iran and China.
Russia is brainwashing people into not hating countries the U.S. tells you to hate ooooooo
Amazing.
It’s Russia. It’s always Russia.
As if your own country hasn’t been filling your head with propaganda from the day you were born 🙄
Everything i don’t like is “russian”.
Blaming problems on an external enemy to distract from internal problems and also to assemble the people behind a “strong man” leader.
No, this stuff is Russian:
Why are people on Lemmy so keen on denying this simple fact?
BlueAnonsense.
- IT Pro: Cambridge Analytica models were exaggerated and ineffective, [UK Information Commissioner’s Office] claims
- Wall Street Journal: Mueller Doesn’t Find Trump Campaign Conspired With Russia
- Jacobin: Democrats and Mainstream Media Were the Real Kremlin Assets
- Washington Post: FEC fines DNC, Clinton for violating rules in funding Steele dossier
- Washington Post: Russian trolls on Twitter had little influence on 2016 voters
- Jacobin: It Turns Out Hillary Clinton, Not Russian Bots, Lost the 2016 Election
- Matt Taibbi: Move Over, Jayson Blair: Meet Hamilton 68, the New King of Media Fraud The Twitter Files reveal that one of the most common news sources of the Trump era was a scam, making ordinary American political conversations look like Russian spywork
- Jacobin: Why the Twitter Files Are in Fact a Big Deal On the Left, there’s been a temptation to dismiss the revelations about Twitter’s internal censorship system that have emerged from the so-called Twitter Files project. But that would be a mistake: the news is important and the details are alarming.
- MSNBC Repeats Hamilton 68 Lies 279 Times in 11 Minutes
- Matt Taibbi: CIA “Cooked The Intelligence” To Hide That Russia Favored Clinton, Not Trump In 2016
- Aaron Maté: Under Trump, the CIA is still covering up its Russiagate fraud
- Matt Taibbi: Note on New Trump-Russia Disclosures Thanks to explosive new document releases, the Russiagate hoax is now exposed, commencing a new era that will be about accountability for the guilty
- Chris Hedges: Why Russiagate Won’t Go Away The cynical con the Democratic Party and the F.B.I. carried out to falsely portray Donald Trump as a puppet of the Kremlin worked, and continues to work, because it is what those who detest Trump want to believe.
There’s a world of difference between “Russia has propaganda” and “this post and anything like it that criticises the West is Russian propaganda”
Also, Wikipedia isn’t a reliable source.
Yes, the CBC has been filling me with Canadian propaganda that says shows like Corner Gas are actually quality entertainment.
Naturally, the common people don’t want war. . . but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.
Fucking bootlicker.
How am I a “bootlicker” because I acknowledged Russian propaganda?
I’m not from the USA. Russia is absolutely trying to create problems in the USA though, and the rest of the west:
You’re the fucking bootlicker for denying it. Lick those Russian boots. Tell me how the sunflowers taste.
I never denied that Russia has propaganda. I do deny your assumption that anyone who isn’t slobbering over US boots must automatically be licking Russian boots, that anyone who doesn’t fall in lockstep behind hating whoever the people in power tell us to hate and assuming anyone who doesn’t must be a traitor or a spy.
Keep denouncing anyone who’s antiwar for their lack of patriotism, you’re making Goering proud.
I do deny your assumption that anyone who isn’t slobbering over US boots must automatically be licking Russian boots
You just posted a quote from Goering in response to me suggesting that a post that decries both parties for “Hostility to Russia, Iran and China” is probably Russian propaganda.
You sir, are the bootlicker.
This from the person basically spouting the modem version of the Judeo-Bolshivik conspiracy theory
Yes, because you’re claiming that anyone who doesn’t fall in line with your Orwellian “five minutes hate” is a traitor. That’s the definition of bootlicking.
Yes, because you’re claiming that anyone who doesn’t fall in line with your Orwellian “five minutes hate” is a traitor.
No, I’m not. I just said that this post was likely Russian propaganda. That’s it.
Maybe you should engage in some critical reflection instead of repeating whatever imperialist genocidal powers tell you to think.
Maybe you should engage in some critical reflection instead of repeating whatever imperialist genocidal powers tell you to think.
Look in the mirror, mate
No, I’m not. I just said that this post was likely Russian propaganda. That’s it.
Because the post criticized the fact that American citizens get zero say over foreign policy, you assumed it was “likely Russian propaganda.”
Maybe you should engage in some critical reflection instead of repeating whatever imperialist genocidal powers tell you to think.
I do, you should try it yourself sometime, bootlicker.
Yeppers, just as the empire wants you to think
This meme seeks to get an emotional response and it’s good at it. There’s some hidden truth there.
But both parties are nowhere the same and wouldn’t have a problem with such a two party system in different countries.
But they’re only parties, with all that brings. They alone won’t make the US a better country.
You say, from the instance whose admins and mods decided to go full Zionist
Yes, that’s what I say.
Don’t remember the last time the Democrats had military storming our streets and black bagging US residents en masse and deporting them to war zones like South Sudan or Libya despite those people having zero ties to those countries.
This reeks of fucking shitpost right-wing propaganda.
They’re not the same. The Dems stand back and shake their fist/wring their hands when the Repubs have power and run roughshod over them. Then when the Dems have power they allow their efforts to be thwarted by the Repubs and gesture helplessly when in fact they could just push things through themselves.
Also the DNC is a malfunctioning toilet that costs elections, implying that they think it’s better to have a pro-establishment Repub in power than a Dem maverick.
The problem is that both parties are right wings, only one somewhat more extreme. Both defends the rights of big corporations, billonairs and less or nothing those of the rest of the people. Public services, labor rights and even basic rights, like health and education are a bad joke in the US and only available if you have money. Now with Trump it goes even worse.
war zones like South Sudan or Libya despite those people having zero ties to those countries.
Damn I wonder why Libya is like that!
You absolute ghouls literally don’t see foreigners as human
I dont think there is a lib alive who remembers the dems role in the destruction of Libya other than those directly involved in it.
True, most of them don’t remember as far back as last year
history started on february 22 2022, it paused and continued on october 7 2023.
Mostly because of Qaddafi.
🙄
How do you expect to be taken seriously after saying this 😂
good to know it’s a-okay to destroy entire countries over 1 guy. Bonus points if brown, amirite?
it’s their fault for not kneeling down, can’t blame us for it!
they really smeared their libbiness by putting the lib in Libya
You need to read more.
since the end of ww2 the two major coup d’états in brazil happened with direct support of the department of state and the cia under dem administration (johnson was in power in 64 and obama, with hillary clinton in charge of the department of state, in 2016). we’ve got a story or two to tell about them. if the regular lib doesn’t care about that, then the most natural thing for us is to consider both parties equally harmful and don’t give a damn over internal issues of the us and a.
Obama has the record for deportations
“Hostility to Russia, Iran, and China”? This reeks of Russian propaganda.
Everything except complete submission to the US State department reeks of Russian propaganda to .worlders
Time to block OP and rid myself of this both sides bullshit
Yeah, wouldn’t want to consume any true, but politically inconvenient posts
/s
Off the top off my head the national guard during the george floyd protest that got called in by tim walz. Even trump was “impressed”
Yes, because those circumstances were completely the same as what’s going on now.
And that makes it acceptable?
People had literally burned down police stations and mass looting was occurring. Their police force was completely overrun. Don’t act like it was remotely the same thing.
I have several friends in Minneapolis that are very progressive. There were tons of people who were legit scared during periods of that for numerous reasons. It wasn’t “acceptable,” but what the fuck else do you do when law and order begins to completely breakdown?
It wasn’t “acceptable,” but what the fuck else do you do when law and order begins to completely breakdown?
if it isn’t acceptable it isn’t acceptable period. “this was the only way” literally means that you think it was acceptable.
I put it in quotes because I wasn’t meaning it to be so exact.
But whatever, I’m done arguing with enlightened centrists.
So you do think the kidnapping off the streets into unmarked vans by the military was somewhat acceptable when the democrats called for it? At least have the gut to come out and say it
Maybe reform the law and order that regularly lets Police murder citizens because they feel like it?
You know, how the protestors demanded before their peaceful protest got beaten up in order to escalate violence to deligitimize the demands and present the violent police as necessary.
I don’t disagree. I was simply providing context, which the other comment I responded to wasn’t addressing.
the Democrats had military storming our streets and black bagging US residents en masse
The Posse Comitatus Act is what generally prevents military from “black bagging US residents” and leaves that job to police.
Texas was the first state to allow for the national guard to assist in immigration efforts back in 2021. Democrats did nothing to stop, delay or prevent the expansion of those powers which were further pushed and nationalized in 2025.
The other loophole is invoking the insurrection act. While Biden did not involve it it was repeatedly threatened during the Gaza war protests, however the protests never got too riotous for the Dems to risk damaging their image and the local police were perfectly capable of documenting and black bagging people for it.
The cases of Kahlil and Mahdawi where Trump attended to deport individuals participating in those protests was made possible by the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952. That specific bill was introduced by the Democrats, passed the Democratic majority House and Senate, Vetoed by Democratic president Truman before being overridden by the house/Senate.
You are correct that they are “not the same”, but stating that the shield of your enemy is your friend, just because it isn’t a sword is fucking insane.
lmfao you americans are ignorant of your own history. do you honestly think ICE disappeared when Biden was in power? no it’s because people like Harris and their bootlickers like you were fine with it when the Top Cop was doing it, they were deporting in record numbers. i guess the black sites also disappeared too, right? typical american arrogance unable to see beyond party affiliation, they are all the same demon to us non-americans, the dems are just better at hiding it. you are the right winger_
And that stuff about abortion shouldn’t even be there after they didn’t do anything for it.
the rights were appealed under genocide Joe
… By the Supreme Court Trump packed?
After the dems didn’t codify it in law even though they had control
Really the only thing that needs to be put in the “Democrats only” section is: Lip Service. It sums up every issue they are supposedly “better” on.
Last election the uncomitted wanted basically only lip servce but didn’t get even that.
US Democracy = Vote Far Rights or Fascists to combat this terrible Comunism, wearing shirts in Stars and Stripes design. Neo-liberal feudalism
“Crush the left” lost it right there 😂
Democrats
-
Retain marriage rights for gay couples.
-
Expand legality of recreational drugs.
-
Free food for schoolchildren.
-
Tax credits for families with children.
-
Subsidized for free childcare.
-
Expand electric car charging nationally.
-
Subsidize sustainable fuel sources.
-
Fact based education standards.
-
Stop racism in policing.
-
Expanded healthcare subsidies.
-
Preserve democracy.
Republicans
-
Being gay or trans should be illegal.
-
White supremacy is great!
-
Christianity as national religion.
-
Privatize the post office and weather service.
*Eliminate the EPA, Department of Education.
-
Defund IRS.
-
Disenfranchise nonwhites and women.
-
Antivax agenda.
-
Expand fossil fuel use.
-
Eliminate worker safety laws.
-
Eliminate collective bargaining and union rights.
-
Defunding science research.
-
Deregulate crypto.
-
No regulations on AI.
-
No recognition of child’s educational or bodily autonomy rights.
-
Eliminate hate crime laws except for straight white men.
-
End democracy, install fascist dictatorship.
But yeah, they are totally the same, right guys? RIGHT!?!
Those memes are just contributing to the issue of young people skipping the elections, and then complaining about our leaders being stupid
No, even the US has more parties than only those two. In Spain we also had a two party system a lot of years ago, but this changed when the people begone to vote also for other parties than those two, with this we have now several different parties, that makes that there have to create aliances to obtain the mayority do be able to govern, so corresponding more on the reallity of the needs of the people, out of this black and white scheme (or better bright and dark grey). In the US is needed that also enter left wing parties, which represent the basic rights of the people, which currently don’t exist, because they are “anti-american communists”, this is the mantra with which they create the fear in the people to vote it.
Exactly! The fascists want people to think there’s no good choice. Apathy helps them take control.
I’m sure repeatedly telling people they need to shut up and never criticize The Party will really reduce apathy.
Criticize all you want. Just recognize there is a difference between a less than ideal party and literal Nazis
Voters: “Please stop bombing children”, “Please stop backing a genocide”, “Please stop handing out our taxes to your rich friends”, “Please stop making healthcare the number one reason for bankruptcy”, “Please stop sending people to torture prisons”, “Please make minimum wage a livable wage”
“…less than ideal party…”
I think you might have a warped view of what “less than ideal” means
less than ideal party
Genocide apologist
I hate it but it’s happening no matter who is in power. Best we can do is a party who isn’t going to throw immigrants in concentration camps.
If you think that committing a modern holocaust is “less than ideal” you belong in a concentration camp.
both can be true at the same time.
Could be, but isn’t.
I wouldnt say a party of genocide supporters who love to kick progressives in the face and dont seem to give 2 shites what their voters want and need, and who have a wildly eroding base and 28% approval doesnt qualify as a:
good choice
But I guess if thats what you think I’m not going to change your mind.
There’s only two choices under the current system and the other one is kidnapping people to put in concentration camps right now. The only chance to change the current system without open armed conflict is the Democrats.
I think its time to start looking past democrats as possible agents of change. Justice delayed is justice denied, and the AIPAC centrists are firmly in control and not about to change anything. Rallying behind them just guarantees more loss, at the cost of enabling their corruption. Their base has already left to the point that they cant win anything. They have a 28% approval rating.
Well, then maybe the Democrats should fix that, by putting out candidates that young people actually want to vote for.
There are too little young voters to make it a viable strategy for either side
Based on that logic, it sounds like there are too few young voters to worry about memes stopping them from voting.
You’ve certainly whitewashed Dems quite a lot. You’re fundamentally not wrong though. As bad as the Dems are, and they are very bad, MAGA is undeniably worse. If we had some other electoral system, we could safely explore other options. But we don’t. We have FPTP, which makes it a binary choice between bad and worse.
And worse is just so, so much worse. That doesn’t make bad good, but it’s still a binary choice. You’d have to be evil or stupid to try to muddy the waters so that bad seems close enough to worse that people don’t feel the urgency of choosing bad to prevent worse.
Dems can be convinced to try other election systems besides FPTP because they fundamentally believe in democracy. From my perspective, fixing things without violence is still an option with Dems. It isn’t with Republicans.
because they fundamentally believe in democracy.
Westerners will go on and on about how North Koreans are brainwashed to worship their leaders, then say shit like this.
fixing things without violence
Apparently doing the modern holocaust doesn’t’ count as “violence” to white supremacist BlueMAGA fascists.
I’m hoping Musk gets some momentum with his third party. Either it splits the Republican vote and slows down this freefall into fascism, or he dumps tons of resources into promoting some variety of RCV. Either way, that’s a net benefit in my eyes.
The lesser evil choice is whichever hastens the collapse of your monstrous, genocidal empire
so you are ok with mass deportations, got it
You’re ok with genocide
Either you’re stupid or you’re lying.
Where’s the lie?
Literally fucking half of the shit you attribute to democrats.
Stop racism in policing.
Start here. This is a fucking lie and you’re practically a nazi for whitewashing them
Its not a lie. The legal progress towards this has come from Democrats. Yeah, it’s not enough and it’s been too long coming. Still, look at which states passed laws on chokeholds and which states passed laws allowing people to run over protesters, then tell me there is no difference in the parties.
You’re too easily impressed with the most superficial bullshit possible. The difference you highlighted is purely symbolic on both sides. As if cops are restrained by the law in the first place. Both parties have the exact same policy on policing and your ‘good guys’ are almost exclusively the ones in charge of the cities that actually run those police departments. All they do is give them more funding. And to confound people like you they engage in ‘liberal box checking’ where they ‘do something’ that changes absolutely nothing structurally. And then you turn around and defend these murderers like they’re the good guys. You’re a boob.
Not allowing choke holds isn’t superficial. Body cams aren’t superficial. They cut down on police use of force and citizen complaints. They also cost money. Better trained police costs money. Sending out social workers with police on domestic calls costs money ,and makes a huge difference in the quality of policing.
The only substantial reduction in policing cost is cutting back on the drug war and most left leaning states are doing that. (Reducing numbers of police would do it but most states have similar per capita number of police as Europe).
There is no doubt we have a long way to go on police reform, but to say there has been no progress simply isn’t true.
I’m sorry but you’re extremely too credulous and unthinking.
I already explained why and how bans on chokeholds are superficial. Are your senses so dull that you didn’t notice or are you being deliberately dishonest and lazy by not addressing it?
Body cams are even more glaring an example. It’s extremely fucking common knowledge that they turn them off whenever they want. Do you think you’re being strategic by ignoring that fact? Because the effect in reality is it makes you sound like an idiot. Your entire premise is undermined.
You just straight up have no idea what’s happening in the world around you.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/08/warrior-cop-class-dave-grossman-killology.html
“More training costs money”
I think you dropped this:
Democrats
- Bombed kids
- Tortured innocent people
- Increased the surveillance state
- Took money from the poor and working class, and gave it to their rich friends
- Spent billions on wars, while claiming that they couldn’t afford to fix our healthcare or housing problems
- Boasted about deporting more people than Republicans
- Backed a Genocide
Wait, where does this not apply to Republicans?
Who said it doesn’t?
The list did. You’re appending to a list.
That’s fair. I updated it to say both. I phrased it that way in response to ChonkyOwlBear’s implication that the Democrats were the good guys
You kinda implied it by titling it “Democrats:”
Whataboutism
flawed argument, this is the real world and you do have to compare options.
Making an imaginary secret third option to win the fight is reserved for kids in the playground
Spoken like a true neoliberal. Pragmatic genocide.
blah blah blah very cultured very much words
do you want a standing ovation for eating a dictionary for breakfast or do you intend to face reality
How bad is your fucking vocabulary if words like “pragmatic” are too fancy for you.
Jesus, I knew fascists were anti-intectual, but getting angry at words the average middle schooler would know is a new level.
Well, Democrats are the less evil choice, but all this is peanuts compared to EU social standard, I see here in Spain often US tourists which thinks they are in the future, IN SPAIN, with the rights, services and the freedom people has. Even with the US Democrates, it’s compared like the EU fifty years ago.
The EU and the Democrats are both supporting the modern holocaust, neither of them are in a position to talk about “social standards.”
Don’t confuse the statement with the capability to realize it. In the same moment when Netanyahu travel to the EU, in the same moment he will get arrested, but the EU can’t invade Israel to capture him, less without the support from the US. But the change is on the way.
In the same moment when Netanyahu travel to the EU, in the same moment he will get arrested
No. Please don’t make claims about things you don’t know about. It makes it sound like you’re lying deliberately.
But the change is on the way.
Maybe in your imaginary dream land that I assume you were referring to with your comment about the EU arresting Netanyahu, not in the real world though. Please try and remember we are talking about the real world.
Certainly not all EU members will arrest him, but the most will. The ICC statement is clear, the problem for some countries is the USA and beeing a NATO member (sadly) at the same time Israel is supported by the USA. This is because some countries are still hesitant, not for other reasons. The real world is this, and because more and more countries want to turn the EU sovereign respect the US. Trumps BBB and Tariffs for the EU, probably will accelerate this process in August 1, in the manner of selfdefense.
The International Criminal Court’s arrest warrants for Benjamin Netanyahu remain valid and binding on all EU member states after judges rejected Israel’s appeal to withdraw them on July 16, 2025[1][2].
EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell emphasized that implementing the warrants “is not optional” for EU states[3]. However, European countries are divided on enforcement:
Countries confirming they would arrest Netanyahu:
- Netherlands: “If he comes to Dutch soil, he will be arrested,” said Foreign Minister Caspar Veldkamp[4]
- Ireland: Prime Minister Simon Harris stated Netanyahu would “absolutely” be arrested[5]
- Spain: The Foreign Ministry confirmed Spain “will comply with its commitments”[5:1]
- Belgium: Initially said it would arrest Netanyahu but later Premier Bart De Wever stated “practical considerations prevail over ethical considerations” and doubted any European country would make the arrest[6]
Countries refusing or hesitant:
- Hungary: Prime Minister Viktor Orbán called the warrants “shameful” and invited Netanyahu with guarantees against arrest[7]
- Germany: Government spokesperson said it’s “hard to imagine arrests could be made”[1:1]
- France: Claims Netanyahu has “immunities” from prosecution[8]
- Italy: Foreign Minister Tajani called Netanyahu’s arrest “unfeasible”[9]
The warrants accuse Netanyahu of war crimes and crimes against humanity, including using starvation as a method of warfare in Gaza between October 2023 and May 2024[10]. While all 27 EU states are legally obligated to enforce ICC warrants, political considerations have created a rift in their response[3:1].
Politico - Netanyahu arrest warrant: Where can he still go in Europe? ↩︎ ↩︎
Straits Times - ICC judges reject Israel’s request to withdraw Netanyahu arrest warrant ↩︎
EurActiv - ICC arrest warrant for Netanyahu ‘binding’ on member states ↩︎ ↩︎
Channel 4 - Netanyahu arrest warrant: Europe split over ICC ruling ↩︎
Newsweek - Netanyahu Arrest Warrant: Full List of Countries That Will Comply with ICC ↩︎ ↩︎
Sweden Herald - Netanyahu Heads to EU Despite ICC Arrest Warrant ↩︎
Washington Examiner - EU says arresting Netanyahu ‘not optional’ as members waiver on warrant ↩︎
i24 News - ICC Upholds Arrest Warrants Against Benjamin Netanyahu & Yoav Gallant ↩︎
Al Jazeera - ICC prosecutor warned to drop Netanyahu case or be ‘destroyed’ ↩︎
Fact based education standards.
Teaching a bunch of lies about American exceptionalism and how imperialism is actually good isn’t what I’d call “fact based”
Stop racism in policing
Right like how democrats in nearly all major cities increased police funding and almost none passed any meaningful reform.
Expanded healthcare subsidies
But don’t remotely consider universal healthcare
Preserve democracy
Preserve the status quo which I wouldn’t call a democracy. A democracy enacts the will of the people, democrats don’t even have a democratic primary for their own party.
Teaching a bunch of lies about American exceptionalism and how imperialism is actually good isn’t what I’d call “fact based”
That’s a right thing, not a left thing.
Right like how democrats in nearly all major cities increased police funding and almost none passed any meaningful reform.
A lot of left leaning places pushed consent decrees, for example:
https://www.chicagopolice.org/community-policing-group/consent-decree/
But don’t remotely consider universal healthcare
The list time Democrats had a filibuster-proof trifecta it was for about 2 months and they passed Obamacare. Since then Republicans have nullified about 40% of it.
Preserve the status quo which I wouldn’t call a democracy.
Except by definition it is a democracy. Like it or not, most people vote for the status quo.
Except by definition it is a democracy.
Barely.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist_Democracy_Index#List_by_country
most people vote for the status quo
Not even getting into the whole voter participaton thing here. I’m just curious does that mean you consider Trump the status quo? Because he won the popular vote in the most recent election. Because if so i agree. Trump is business as usual for the US. Just going mask off. Just surprised to see a liberal admit as much.
0·13 days agoReminder that lemmy.world users cannot see lemmygrad users. ChonkyOwlbear is never going to respond, they cannot see your comment.
lmaooo i wish i couldnt see them too that’s not fair
I will pretend to be outraged on their behalf. “You filthy tankie!”
omg :( Me not filthy me take shower like every day. So mean.
-
add gay vs god to the outsides
maybe something on immigration and racism
We may have got here eventually anyway, but things are a lot worse for Americans right now because of Trump’s Republicans. Let’s not lose sight of that when complaining about the shit they have in common.
There’s also nobody who might emerge out of the right who would bring something that will make life for everyone better. Only the Democrats have a chance of doing that and engineering a better system that might eventuallyundermine their own political hegemony. Would they without pressure? Of course not. But the right will never even be pressured to do anything like that intentionally by it’s base, almost by definition basically.
Only the Democrats have a chance of doing that and engineering a better system that might eventuallyundermine their own political hegemony.
No they don’t
But the right will never even be pressured to do anything like that intentionally by it’s base,
The Democrats couldn’t be pressured to stop doing genocide even at the cost of losing the election
I don’t think you’re listening. That’s one of the issues both sides share in common that sucks. Doesn’t change the fact they’re our only hope.
I’m listening, I just think you’re wrong.
And I brought up that issue specific to show that the Democrats also “will never even be pressured to do anything like that intentionally by it’s base”
Progressive social change has always occurred under the auspices of the left-most of the two major parties. That’s just how it overwhelmingly is. What’s not to agree with? How do you think progress will happen next time it happens?
The hallmark progressive achievements made in this country, many that still exist today (to varying degrees ofc) were a result of third party sweat, blood and tears. Literally.
I recommend reading about the social/workers rights movements of the early 1900s. The Progressive Party led by Roosevelt, The Bull Moose Party with social reformers like Jane Addams and Florence Kelly, the Socialist Party of Eugene Debs… all of these were most prominent in fighting for and ultimately producing a cluster of social welfare, social insurance reforms, women’s suffrage, workers rights/5 day work week, etc.
It was the dedication, pressure and will to not fall in line trying to change the two-party duopoly from within but to build their own coalitions, their own movements on the outside, and thus the mainstream parties were eventually forced to inscribe the populus demands into legislation.
All that to say, healthy third parties are a good thing. It builds actual pressure on your constituents. You can’t take votes away from politicians who refuse to legislate on your behalf when they know you’re voting for them anyway – all the while lining their pockets with money from the bourgeois they actually legislate for. Seeking the change you wish to see via third party can and has produced tremendous gains for the working class.
Removed by mod
Listen to yourself. You’re saying the Democrats are our only hope yet they also don’t listen.
Democrats do listen, but only to those with power. Before anything can change for the better we need power for ourselves.
Genocide Joe, you’re my only hope
If your only hope is a party comitting genocide you might as well abandon it and look elsewhere
Where?
PSL, DSA or whoever organizes where you currently are
You can and should support them as they align with your values, but you’ll never get enough votes for them to have any chance of overthrowing the big two. It has to be changed from within, unless you’re prepared to try violence.
Fuck voting, organizing is where its at. I swear if just half the free time as some people on here… (not you specifically)
Since changing from within is impossible, and voting in a new party is highly unlikely, it seems the revolutionaries were right all along.
The thing is that your asking tankies to be pragmatic about policy. They would rather let the Palestinian Genocide continue and works lose more rights than to do anything helpful in the near or medium term. They just aren’t serious about the issues.
Its easy for the .ml types to cry and wait for a perfect policy or candidate. They aren’t going hungry, nor under seige of any kind.
The thing is that your asking tankies to be pragmatic about policy.
This “pragmatism” is how we got here in the first place.
Its easy for the .ml types to cry and wait for a perfect policy or candidate.
We’re not looking for a perfect candidate under bourgeois democracy, because we know it will never happen. Previously:
The US government was never not captured by the bourgeoisie, because the US was born of a bourgeois revolution[1]. The wealthy, white, male, land-owning, largely slave-owning Founding Fathers constructed a bourgeois state with “checks and balances” against the “tyranny of the majority”. It was never meant to represent the majority—the working class—and it never has, despite eventually allowing women and non-whites (at least those not disenfranchised by the carceral system) to vote. BBC: [Princeton & Northwestern] Study: US is an oligarchy, not a democracy
We’re not looking for a perfect candidate under bourgeois democracy, because we know it will never happen. Previously:
In either case you’re not doing shit and you’re not a serious movement. Tankies don’t vote to minimize harm, nor do they vote to expand the progressive wing.
You all are effectively the ratchet democratsyou laughs at because you ultimately won’t show or organize for anything. Tankies aren’t serious people.
Schrodinger’s leftists; simultaneously the reason the Democrats lost the election and the biggest obstacle to progress, but also not a serious movement.
Non.voting is the largest block going back multiple cycles. Trolls like you are concerned but not enough to show up. I’m aware of your trolling, so I won’t entertain you much more
Thank God this image not only has the label “Venn Diagram” but also has a big red arrow pointing to the center and labeled “things the two parties have in common”. I had forgotten the name of this extremely common diagram and I also had no idea how it worked.
