Tried to install Mint on my laptop, wouldn’t work. Googled the issue, had to rename a file in the boot directory for some reason.
Tried again, wouldn’t work. Googled issue, had to turn off secure boot in bios.
Tried again, installed, okay now we’re cooking. Connected to WiFi, updated packages and drivers. All good, reboot. Install Steam. Login via QR code, it begins loading user data.
Loading… Loading… Loading… Okay it’s clearly stuck. How do I kill a process on Linux? Google it, okay that’s not too hard. Try launching Steam again, same thing. Google this issue, get a lot of different potential causes, involving delving into some obscure directories.
I consider myself technologically competent, more so than the average person/consumer. I am a lot of people in my social sphere’s “computer guy”. Way more than most people are not going to figure this stuff out for themselves.
I’m really sorry to say but Linux is still not ready for mainstream consumers and users if this is the experience of the most recommended stable distro for the average person.
Tried to install Mint on my laptop, wouldn’t work. Googled the issue, had to rename a file in the boot directory for some reason.
UEFI problems, sorry. Would have them with Windows too probably.
Tried again, wouldn’t work. Googled issue, had to turn off secure boot in bios.
Unfortunately Microsoft pushed Secure Boot everywhere, so yes, for most distributions you have to turn it off (some have signed kernels or whatever).
Loading… Loading… Loading… Okay it’s clearly stuck. How do I kill a process on Linux? Google it, okay that’s not too hard. Try launching Steam again, same thing. Google this issue, get a lot of different potential causes, involving delving into some obscure directories.
So removing the ~/.steam directory after doing pkill steam didn’t help? That seems simpler than most Windows tasks. Anyway, I have Steam working even under FreeBSD.
Nobody will believe that you don’t have some Windows experience exceeding what you seem to consider the maximum acceptable requirement for Linux. Don’t even try.
This is one of those situations where that xkcd comic about experts comes into play.
So removing the ~/.steam directory after doing pkill steam didn’t help? That seems simpler than most Windows tasks.
I don’t know how to convey to you that 99% of the people that use Windows wont know how to do anything beyond trying to kill the app via the task manager. I’m one of them. What you said sounds like mystic gobbledygook to me.
Mass Linux adoption is still far out of reach for the average user.
The users on Windows range from casual not techies to full on nerds. In between there are people with different interests and different tech experience.
The next likely new Linux users will be at the techy end of that range.
Bunching them together is really poor usability analysis. Talking about average users is also nonsense. Out of 100 users, there might be only one average user.
I’ve been using Linux full-time at home for 14 years+ without needing to use the command line. Linux is far from perfect, but misinformation should be avoided.
At work I need Eindows for our CAD application. FOSS CAD is OK for some use cases. But falls far short for my car design use cases.
Wait… wait… So your average Facebook mom who has a laptop lying around that they use to watch their series in the evening, but will have to chuck it due to EOL of win10 and no win11 support, will not be able to adopt mint after she has someone install it for her, because you couldn’t get a hyperspecific app to run on it? (Steam is hyperspecific in the grand scheme of things).
It’s true. A friend asked for help on his new laptop and after a confusing conversation I realised he was upset because the web browser had “lost” his “bookmarks”. No, those aren’t bookmarks, those are shortcuts to your most recent web pages. Looks like you don’t have any bookmarks. Let me show you how to make a bookmark…
He’s not dumb or even inexperienced with tech, he just has a different mindset.
Don’t let these responses fool you. My girlfriend games on PopOS and never had to open the terminal for anything. It just works. Most of the issues in the OP stem from using proprietary hardware, closed-source/proprietary drivers, and perhaps trying to dual-boot Windows and Linux.
Now, who is to fault for all these issues, if not Windows pushing such garbage on consumers? Linux is not there yet because Windows doesn’t want it to.
If there’s a chance of breaking the cycle and getting rid of Windows as the de facto PC OS, we need people to put in the minimal effort needed to run and maintain a computer, and to take of the training wheels supported by the Bigtech.
To understand what OP said, it’s like two hours of work maximum, even for an older person with only basic knowledge. It’s the lack of will and apathy that has Windows be where it is now.
Neil Stephenson’s “In the Beginning… Was the Command Line” (1999) touches on this. He compares Microsoft to a station wagon vs Linux as a free tank. People keep buying the station wagon because no-one wants to learn how to drive a tank, even if it’s free. (Apple is a luxury car in his analogy.)
My first computer ran on MS-DOS, and I’ve seen Windows hiding DOS deeper and deeper behind the GUI. And now AI… ugh. I’ve been tinkering with Linux on old laptops so I’m ready for the move, it’s just finding the time.
beyond trying to kill the app via the task manager
Which is exactly what I said, just in shell commands because that’s quicker for me. Except pkill steam kills everything containing steam in the process name, steam is a little bitch spawning a lot of them. Quicker.
What you said sounds like mystic gobbledygook to me.
“Task manager” is not some fundamental term either. Someone who hadn’t use Windows, if there were many of such people, wouldn’t know that it’s a GUI application listing running services and some of the processes.
Mass Linux adoption is still far out of reach for the average user.
If you are going to measure it by what advanced users are used to not being immediately understandable for others, then it is.
Tried to install Mint on my laptop, wouldn’t work. Googled the issue, had to rename a file in the boot directory for some reason.
Tried again, wouldn’t work. Googled issue, had to turn off secure boot in bios.
Tried again, installed, okay now we’re cooking. Connected to WiFi, updated packages and drivers. All good, reboot. Install Steam. Login via QR code, it begins loading user data.
Loading… Loading… Loading… Okay it’s clearly stuck. How do I kill a process on Linux? Google it, okay that’s not too hard. Try launching Steam again, same thing. Google this issue, get a lot of different potential causes, involving delving into some obscure directories.
I consider myself technologically competent, more so than the average person/consumer. I am a lot of people in my social sphere’s “computer guy”. Way more than most people are not going to figure this stuff out for themselves.
I’m really sorry to say but Linux is still not ready for mainstream consumers and users if this is the experience of the most recommended stable distro for the average person.
Jorge Castro of Universal Blue likes to say that the average person doesn’t install operating systems, and I fully agree with him.
People rock what comes installed on their computer. Anyone who installs an OS them self is not an average user.
I think we’ll see the average user start to choose Linux as more and more manufacturers ditch the Windows tax and ship computers with Linux.
I agree with you, I’m in similar situation and yet people here will screech at you for saying stuff like that. Don’t mind them.
I had the same issue with the secure boot in bios when I switched a computer to Linux Mint a few weeks ago, but it’s been smooth other than that.
UEFI problems, sorry. Would have them with Windows too probably.
Unfortunately Microsoft pushed Secure Boot everywhere, so yes, for most distributions you have to turn it off (some have signed kernels or whatever).
So removing the
~/.steamdirectory after doingpkill steamdidn’t help? That seems simpler than most Windows tasks. Anyway, I have Steam working even under FreeBSD.Nobody will believe that you don’t have some Windows experience exceeding what you seem to consider the maximum acceptable requirement for Linux. Don’t even try.
This is one of those situations where that xkcd comic about experts comes into play.
I don’t know how to convey to you that 99% of the people that use Windows wont know how to do anything beyond trying to kill the app via the task manager. I’m one of them. What you said sounds like mystic gobbledygook to me.
Mass Linux adoption is still far out of reach for the average user.
The users on Windows range from casual not techies to full on nerds. In between there are people with different interests and different tech experience. The next likely new Linux users will be at the techy end of that range. Bunching them together is really poor usability analysis. Talking about average users is also nonsense. Out of 100 users, there might be only one average user.
I’ve been using Linux full-time at home for 14 years+ without needing to use the command line. Linux is far from perfect, but misinformation should be avoided.
At work I need Eindows for our CAD application. FOSS CAD is OK for some use cases. But falls far short for my car design use cases.
Wait… wait… So your average Facebook mom who has a laptop lying around that they use to watch their series in the evening, but will have to chuck it due to EOL of win10 and no win11 support, will not be able to adopt mint after she has someone install it for her, because you couldn’t get a hyperspecific app to run on it? (Steam is hyperspecific in the grand scheme of things).
What a hyperbole.
I am going to invoke the XKCD comic on you in return.
I work in a library. I help people with computer issues every day on their personal computers and the public ones…
99% of people would freak out if you expected them to know what Task Manager even is, let alone what it does or how to open it.
This entire conversation is vastly overestimating people’s abilities and confidence when it comes to computer use.
It’s true. A friend asked for help on his new laptop and after a confusing conversation I realised he was upset because the web browser had “lost” his “bookmarks”. No, those aren’t bookmarks, those are shortcuts to your most recent web pages. Looks like you don’t have any bookmarks. Let me show you how to make a bookmark…
He’s not dumb or even inexperienced with tech, he just has a different mindset.
doesn’t mint/cinnamon have a graphical task manager? and deleting ~/.steam can be dont from the file manager
Don’t let these responses fool you. My girlfriend games on PopOS and never had to open the terminal for anything. It just works. Most of the issues in the OP stem from using proprietary hardware, closed-source/proprietary drivers, and perhaps trying to dual-boot Windows and Linux.
Now, who is to fault for all these issues, if not Windows pushing such garbage on consumers? Linux is not there yet because Windows doesn’t want it to.
If there’s a chance of breaking the cycle and getting rid of Windows as the de facto PC OS, we need people to put in the minimal effort needed to run and maintain a computer, and to take of the training wheels supported by the Bigtech.
To understand what OP said, it’s like two hours of work maximum, even for an older person with only basic knowledge. It’s the lack of will and apathy that has Windows be where it is now.
Neil Stephenson’s “In the Beginning… Was the Command Line” (1999) touches on this. He compares Microsoft to a station wagon vs Linux as a free tank. People keep buying the station wagon because no-one wants to learn how to drive a tank, even if it’s free. (Apple is a luxury car in his analogy.)
My first computer ran on MS-DOS, and I’ve seen Windows hiding DOS deeper and deeper behind the GUI. And now AI… ugh. I’ve been tinkering with Linux on old laptops so I’m ready for the move, it’s just finding the time.
Which is exactly what I said, just in shell commands because that’s quicker for me. Except
pkill steamkills everything containingsteamin the process name,steamis a little bitch spawning a lot of them. Quicker.“Task manager” is not some fundamental term either. Someone who hadn’t use Windows, if there were many of such people, wouldn’t know that it’s a GUI application listing running services and some of the processes.
If you are going to measure it by what advanced users are used to not being immediately understandable for others, then it is.