Still don’t know how I’m supposed to add dictionaries to FF on snap. So many little issues like this with snaps.
Hadn’t snap fixed a lot of the complaints people initially had?
I think the main complaint is that it seems like Canonical is trying take control of Linux packaging. Don’t they handle their stuff in a way that pretty much prevents third party ‘Snap Stores’? Like, their backend being closed source and their software only accepting their own signatures?
I dont know for sure so disregard what I say. but I remember reading that users could host their own snap repos but canonicals one was the only one at the moment. Everything about snap is open source except the webserver.
Yeah the API is open and there used to be an open store, but lack of interest ended up with the project shutting down. As it turns out people don’t like alternative stores nearly as much as they like the idea of alternative stores.
Has it? My complaints are: I have to use VPN software for work that replaces /etc/resolve.conf with a symlink to another location, one that sandboxed snaps can’t access. There’s no way to grant them access; the “slots” that you can connect are fixed and pre-defined. You can’t even configure the file path; it’s defined right in the source code. Not even as a #define, but the string literal “/etc/resolve.conf”. That seems like poor practice, but I guess they’re not going for portability.
Also, I have /usr and /var on different media, chosen for suitability of purpose, and sized appropriately. Then, along comes snap, violating the File Hierarchy Standard by filling up /var with application software.
Minor annoyances are the ~/snap folder, and all of the mounted loopback filesystems which make reading the mtab difficult.
Not the biggest: User choice.
Probably, but the stink will linger for quite a long time.
There’s a burger place near my house that I use to go to almost every week. But then the quality started going down, and I stopped going there. That was two years ago. Maybe they fixed the problems, but I’m not going to know - because I no longer go there. Snap is like that.
That’s because we are…
If .y Firefox will once again be updated without asking me and then refusing to open any page without a restart I’ll fucking lose it
Wait hold on wait, does that bullshit have something with Firefox being distributed through Snap?
If it does, I’m going to sn… also fucking lose it
I have bad news for you …
(TBH I am not sure, but as I remember, this problem was specifically a snap problem.)
Yeah, it’s snap
Always updating without letting you know, without asking and it’s ALWAYS at the most inconvenient time
Ah gotcha, it’s not the cause but it makes the problem way worse
It basically IS the cause as it’s the system doing the updates without asking. But snap has other issues too. For one, it’s the slowest installer in recorded human history, it takes literally ten times longer on snap to install anything. Why? Beats me, in theory it ought to be faster as it shouldn’t have to resolve dependencies but here we are. Try installing anything with snap, it takes forever.
Then, snap is closed source eon the server side, so fuck all of that, that’s already 200% of reasons not to use it ever. I don’t trust closed source software anymore
By “problem” I meant having to close Firefox before further browsing, not automated updates - I don’t know if I could stand daily-driving a system with Snap updating my stuff while I’m trying to use it tbh, that’s one of the main reasons I left Windows behind.
Your first comment gave me the impression that Firefox required a restart because it’s distributed officially through Snaps or something, idk 27 days have passed since then
The required FF restart after updating is indeed an FF thing, but in combination with snap just updating without asking is extremely annoying.
laughs in Nix and NixOS
A magnetised needle and a steady hand is a better package format.
What you are thinking of is not a package manager but a compiler.
Not if you just have list of blobs in your head.
I tried a snap package on my pop-os system once & it poo’ed folders all over my system, then didn’t actually uninstall when I uninstalled it.
No thank you.
thats the thing with snaps: they go all over the place on your system, so even if you uninstall it (which itself is a tiring and cumbersome task at times!), they magically stay everywhere on the systems, with tons of folders and files.
I thought contained snaps can only install into /snap directories.
install yes, but there are tons of other files and folders that get created, IIRC even pseudo-users or something along those lines? (or that was distro-specific perhaps)
You mean like the program itself is creating files? The issue would be the same whether apt or snap is used, in this case.
never had a problem with other programs leaking out on the system after being properly uninstalled except snap
AppImage is the no-nonsense universal package format.
Last time I read something from the main dev I almost ran stright into the woods.
Also idk about how it is the management situation, portals integration, etc…
AppImages have a lot of problems
Like not updating or shared dependencies duplicated for every single app image
Just use flatpak
or they somehow still find a way to not work. I can count the number of times i had an appimage just work, and it is exactly 2. Any other time i had crashes
Absolutely my favorite. Just download and go. Super portable.
The lack of package management sucks though
It would, if there were no other options for package management. Package formats don’t have to be either/or. My systems typically end up with mixes of native packages, flatpak, appimages, and you could technically consider Steam a package management system as well.
Like a bunch of old farts in a coffee shop arguing over which truck brand is better.
Yeah, but Snap is the equivalent of Tesla…
You want me to top off your coffee before you go home to take a nap?
Yes please, and more cake!
Now remember old fella you can’t have cake anymore. It messes with your blood sugar.
Only tangentially related - but a friend brought over a new kubuntu install and Canonical had the cheek to demand money for VLC patches? They don’t fing own VLC. What the actual f is going on over there, Canonical?
Is it backports for an old version?
I don’t know, this was for a system on kubuntu 24.04, the latest up there. I removed it, replaced it with debian and kde - my friend isn’t a gamer, doesn’t require anything bleeding edge, so that was just a better choice in our opinion.
Mark Shuttleworth is a greedy bastard and it’s finally starting to show.
Eh. He’s done more for Linux than you, I, or anyone else in this thread for that matter.
I have really started to like AppImage. You just download a single file make it executable and it just works.
I use Cursor for coding, and it has an appimage that replaces itself when it updates.
That’s cool and all but it would be even cooler if you could just install and keep it updated through your package manager
updating Hello World program
I use AM package manager for that.
That’s cool.
It would still be even cooler if the app makers just packaged them for distros. Or even just Flatpak.
But that’s a cool project I’ll keep it in mind for my next go with an immutable distro
Or even just Flatpak.
AM was started because flatpak sucks.
-
With flatpak devs can’t agree to use a common runtime, so the user ends up with a bunch of different runtimes and even EOL versions of the same runtime, making the storage usage 5x more than the appimage equivalent and this is much worse if you use nvidia which flatpak will download the entire nvidia driver again.
-
flatpak could not bother to fix the hardcoded
~/.vardirectory, something that AM fixes by simply bind mounting the existing application config/data files to their respective places when sandboxing which yes it is able to sandbox appimages with aisap (bubblewrap). -
flatpak threw the mess of handling conflicting applications to the user, so you have to type nonsense like
flatpak run io.github.ungoogled_software.ungoogled_chromium, AM just puts the app toPATHlike everyone else does, even snap doesn’t have this issue.
Having experienced Flatpak bloat and seeing your posts here, I might just have been converted. The Flatpak integration on my distro is neat though. But I already use Aptitude for most of my package management needs, so I guess adding AM to my toolbox doesn’t seem too bad.
-
I do wish something like AM’s functions was built into an all-in-one package manager for my distro. The closest I found was bauh which handles “AppImage, Debian and Arch Linux packages (including AUR), Flatpak, Snap and Web applications”. Which seems like an all-in-one solution.
But the problem with bauh (that last time I tried it) is that it accesses only a small number of (often very out-of-date) AppImages from the largely moribund AppImageHub.com, unlike AM, which pulls in the latest releases from loads of GitHub repos, and adds more on a frequent basis or request.
Some AppImages have that built in, like Ente.
That’s kind of the point though. One of the foundational pillars of a good distribution is mature package management, and that includes not relying on self-updaters that will pollute your system with untracked files
Absolutely, but don’t AppImage updaters basically just replace the AppImage? They’re self-contained, no?
Some apps are a bitch and a half for some reason, other apps just work
Make a .desktop file, slap it in ./local/share/imdrawingafuckingblank and boom, it’s integrated into your shell menu like any other app
The Nexus Mod App and Foundry VTT work flawlessly and it’s so nice
As a somewhat Linux noob I just made a folder called ~/Apps and launch them through terminal. Not ideal, but I don’t care enough to fix it.
Your suggestion makes me kinda want to fix it though. Doesn’t seem like to much work
I’ve used Linux for years and I also have a
~/Applicationsfolder where I put AppImages, applications cloned with git and stuff like that in. E.g. I have the last Yuzu AppImage in there, since it got taken down, but I also made a.desktopfile for it, so I can launch it through the application menu. Btw, you should be able to just double click AppImages in your file explorer to open them.appimaged does exactly that automatically for you.
see: https://streamable.com/dm575h
With that said I prefer AM, because it also adds the applications to
PATH, meaning you typeyuzuon the terminal and it launches yuzu as well.Maybe I should install one of these but I would have expected Fedora to come with something like this preinstalled tbh
Change ~/Apps to ~/bin or ~/.bin & you are doing it like a seasoned pro.
Haha, wow. Thanks!
AM puts all AppImages in
/optfor me, as well as automatically creating menu entries, easy updates etc.Also a noob and this seems like the most reliable way for sure. As long as I’m in the right directory I’m good
Add that directory to $PATH so you can use those apps in any directory
I need nothing but apt or dnf. Miss me with that other junk.
LFS + conda
I use apt and flatpak. They both are good for what they do.
Why do you need flatpak
ensures software support when the developer in question is a moron
When using certain apps I prefer them being containerized on my system. It’s case-by-case for me. I keep steam containerized, my web browser containerized, etc.
But…why
In the case of steam and web browser, the containerization means I can control their access permissions via flatseal. This adds another layer of security, since they’re both web-accessing applications, and it’s easier than setting up a VM to run those applications.
Be aware the sandbox of flatpak is not safe for web browsers, specially firefox based browsers:
https://seirdy.one/notes/2022/06/12/flatpak-and-web-browsers/
https://librewolf.net/installation/linux/#security
https://github.com/uazo/cromite/issues/1053#issuecomment-2191794660
Ah, wasn’t aware. Will have to look into it more.
I use boring Debian, so apt and older packages, and flatpak for a few programs that I want up to date.
Because it just works. After being with computers all day fixing the insane problems that other people create I just want to come home and press buttons and have things work
Why do you need flatpak
Not OP, but I like Flatpak (in addition to Apt) because it doesn’t require escalation to add or remove packages, so my kids can self-serve adding or removing games.
If you are going to be running an Atomic/immutable distro, you really want to use things like flatpack/snap/appImage to keep your user space separate from the OS.
Oh, you can sledgehammer an rpm/deb/what ever into the underlying OS. But if you do that, why did you choose an immutable distro in the first place? It’s kind of the whole point.
Flatpak is a common way to install something newer than you can get in your repo. If you are using apt in Debian Stable, Flatpak is a miracle. This is even the reason Ubuntu installs Firefox as a snap (their version of Flatpak).
Weird way to spell pacman
As an Arch user for many years, my question is when is Arch going to ditch pacman and upgrade to APK 3?
I’ve never used it – what do you like about it?
Muh portage tho😲
i just got an Ubuntu machine at work, and really simple packages are only available as snaps. so i guess i’m going to try out Nix home-manager
It’s not about the package management method that we use. It’s about the friends and enemies we made along the way (while arguing about package management.)
You can change the labels but the groups in them would remain the same. :)
Nix is just across the street sipping tea because it understands what it is and is at peace with the chaotic world around it.
Nix organizes Bohemian Grove.
I use NixOS and Flatpak (Nix-Flatpak) to install software that is not available in Nixpkgs. Unlike Arch’s AUR, Nixpkgs has fewer popular packages. However, Nixpkgs beats AUR in terms of quantity because many Nixpkgs packages are redundant.
Gentoo is too busy compiling to notice what’s going on around it
What’s wrong with Snap?
Everything else is FOSS besides the server and snaps can even be installed locally. I wrote a section of an article about most of the complaints. Most of the complaints I hear are just elitistic bullshit that makes new users confused and spreads misinformation.
What’s wrong with Snap?
Proprietary servers.
Can you elaborate a little? I imagined this meant something like Visual Studio Code’ Marketplace (which doesn’t allow non Microsoft products to connect), but I don’t see anything about that on Snap’s TOS.
To be clear, I’m not saying you’re wrong or anything, I’m just trying to understand.
People want a full open stack, and the server is closed. Its less a technical complaint and more a philosophical one.
Not the person you are asking, just trying to add context on why some find that problematic for those who are reading later.
I don’t think it’s a TOS thing, just a lack of open source server software? To the best of my knowledge, it’s just not possible to host my own snap server. At least, I didn’t find any solution when I looked. Which seems weird, for an open source operating system.
Surely it can be reverse engineered by the API that snap uses?
Surely it can be reverse engineered by the API that snap uses?
Uh… Sure…
But the competing options that require no reverse engineering are completely free, so…to each their own, I suppose.
ffs, no need for the tone. I’m not trying to defend them. Just trying to understand what exactly the problem is and isn’t.
