It is kinda funny how people understand that hyperbolic and scandalous language grabs our attention, their attention gets grabbed by hyperbolic and scandalous language and then they laughing at those who used that language. You got played. They aren’t wrong as much as you didn’t understand what they are doing. An investor is rewarded for having the correct opinion but only if everyone else is wrong. They are professional liars. So they get money because they misled the public and they get money for the attention that they generated. They cashed in twice.
Personally, I do think china will face great economical challenges in the near future though. E.g. The collapse of evergrande and the consequences on the whole sector will make some waves. Let’s hope the public won’t suffer.
Before anyone wants to jump at me for shitting on china and praising the west (I did neither), I think e.g. america is a dumpster fire economically speaking and the eu is struggling at best.
If anyone is interested to share with me their opinion on a (in my opinion, a very probable) collapse of Tesla will impact the EV market, especially the Chinese market, please do!
China has a demographics that will severely kick it in its balls very soon, and that is probably an understatement.
China will be the best country in the world the same day fusion reactors will be available. Always in ten years. No matter when you read this.
Ten years from now, China will be in freefall down. Demographics.
I thought it was the Chinese AI we had to worry about. But if you hook the Chinese AI to the Chinese Nuclear Reactors… game over man. Game over.
Depends on how you define “best,” I suppose. I’d say we are already there.
This was a couple of years ago but I think the numbers are still the same: sending a shipping container from Hong Kong to Newark cost about $3000 while sending the same container in the opposite direction cost about $500. This is because we badly want the shit China makes while they don’t want anything we make (the same situation that led Great Britain to force China to accept opium at gunpoint almost two hundred years ago). Sending a container to China is so cheap that for a stretch we were actually filling them with our garbage because it was less expensive to dispose of it there.
Anyone who think this represents economic weakness on China’s part is batshit crazy.
This is because we badly want the shit China makes while they don’t want anything we make
That’s not entirely true. China produces a lot of low-margin industrial goods that Americans then assemble into finished products. Americans produce an assortment of agricultural and mineral goods that are in high demand in China (oilseeds and grains, particularly soybeans, followed by mineral fuels and oil). We also produce a number of high-margin technology components (include aircraft and parts, electrical machinery and TV parts, and nuclear reactor parts and mechanical appliances) that are expensive but comparatively smaller by volume than the products China sends our way.
Think of it this way. If China sends us a pound of feathers and we send them a pound of iron, even if they’re the same price one of them is going to fill up a shipping container a lot faster than the other. The end result is a net positive number of shipping containers coming into the US.
Anyone who think this represents economic weakness on China’s part is batshit crazy.
It’s a generally symbiotic relationship and one that any neoliberal economist would laud. We’ve stratified our industrial economies such that we’re highly specialized in respective fields. It isn’t weakness on either side’s part any more than the heart is stronger/weaker than the lungs because one beats faster than the other breaths.
Oh man, nice.
Not entirely true, they love our soy beans and alfalfa… But Chinese junk and cattle feed are both horrible for this world. In fact, you can pack a freighter full of alfalfa and hardly add to its weight.
Containers as cheap home starting points in US is also a function of this dynamic. No need to ship empty ones back to Asia.
The problem isn’t the lack of ability to build new houses, it’s the lack of land that’s in a liveable area, zoned for new development and not already taken. The land doesn’t exist.
Run the gauntlet yeye
Much like the US, they can simultaneously have an economy that SHOULD collapse, but also be so ingrained in global trade that nobody is actually willing to call them to the carpet.
If China were Greece, they’d probably have gone bankrupt multiple times already.
What exactly does “should” mean in this context? Either it does it it doesn’t, and saying it “should” just sounds like saying reality is wrong for not conforming to your economic theory.
What exactly does “should” mean in this context?
I think the implication is that it’s essentially being prevented from collapse because it’s so ingrained in international trade that if it were to collapse it would hurt you and your allies too much, so you don’t allow it to collapse when it otherwise might.
its communist, but they’ve got billionares
To get terminology out of the way, they are building towards Communism through Socialism, ie an economy where public ownership is the principle aspect of the economy. In other words, large firms and key industries are overwhelmingly publicly owned, so the Bourgeoisie doesn’t have power over the state.
Now that terms are out of the way, you’re correct, China does have billionaires. Even though that number is decreasing in recent years while working class purchasing power and wages are rising, that isn’t enough of an answer as to why they still exist. Billionaires represent a contradiction the CPC must resolve. But how is the best way to go about that? What time scale? The CPC’s role is to gradually resolve contradictions within Socialism in favor of the Proletariat in any inter-class dispute. They have to erase the foundations for billionaires, not the billionaires themselves.
I recommend checking out China Has Billionaires. The important thing to understand is that contradictions exist in all systems, and it is the process of working out these contradictions that provides room for advancement.
you know I’ve been ignoring pretty much everything you say after you said that NK is a good country
Only shitlibs would proudly announce that they stick their fingers in their ears
do you think NK is a good country?
Do you think proudly announcing that you refuse to engage with anything that challenges your beliefs makes you look good?
do you think NK is a good country?
Do you think proudly announcing that you refuse to engage with anything that challenges your beliefs makes you look good?
Feel free to keep letting me ratio you then 👍
Fair, I still have a lot of learning to do about Korea. I’m familiar with the basics of Japanese Imperialism, US intervention post-World War II, and then the general outline of the Korean War, but beyond that I’m not very well-versed. It’s an area I’d like to study further.
Thanks, comrade!
Its 2025. Language has evolved further than ‘ratio’
Rhetorically and factually trounce, then? Destroy, in the marketplace of ideas? What term would you prefer to describe your use as a springboard for me to bounce pro-Marxist ideas off of?
Its run by the communist party, whose purpose is guiding the country to communism and self dissolution; which has necessitated not skipping over the industrial and consumer revolutions, both of which likely require capitalism, but in any case have been done with capitalism so that path is easier and known, allowing them to benefit from the waste from less competent countries.
Or in other words, they’re the only country in history to execute billionaires, whatever they are is objectively better than the US or EU.
the country is in a socialist mode of production
the party is communist
Dialectics?
huh
Dialectics in this context refers to the aspects within the Marxist philosophy of Dialectical Materialism for the analysis of contradictions, and the direction they are resolved in. Billionaires within Socialism are a contradiction, therefore whether the state supports or works towards eliminating the foundations for them is what needs to be analyzed. I answered in another comment more about that.
“Imminent collapse” is a fairly common theme among modern economies
imminent collapse is a fairly common theme among anything we’ve learned to engineer fairly well… if a bridge isn’t in imminent danger of collapse under its theoretical maximum loading, it used too much material and was thus over-built which means fewer bridges for people
if an economy isn’t in imminent danger of collapse then it’s resources aren’t being used efficiently and that means fewer luxuries - and bridges - for people
We haven’t learned to engineer economies well.
At least no country leaders have.
It’s a built in, central facet:
Eww Reinhart and Rogoff, all my homies hate Reinhart and Rogoff.
TL:DR Reinhart and Rogoff infamously cherry picked their data and had coding errors to support austerity measures that fucked over much of the world, subsequent meta analyses found that austerity doesn’t work.
Growth in a Time of Debt - Wikipedia - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_in_a_Time_of_Debt
a common theme song among capitalist economies
China is following the playbook of Japan, South Korea, Taiwan and similar countries. The all used window guidance to quickly grow targeted industries, which actually worked very well. All of them are wealthy countries today. However that dependence on how good the window guidance is. They take on a lot of debt to invest and it only works as long as the investment is actually smart. If not the debt increases and that causes massive problems down the line. So it creates a bubble and when it pops it hurts badly. After decades of growth those bubbles probably are nasty.
What no theory does to a mf
What theory?
Political Economy, ie Marxism.
China isn’t Marxist so I’m confused wtf that has to do with anything.
The PRC is Socialist and run by Marxist-Leninists, large firms and key industries are firmly in the public sector, while the private sector is largely cooperatives, sole proprietorships, and small firms. This is classically Marxist. I elaborate more on this here.
I didn’t realize banks, financial trade, and currency were also classically Marxist.
What do the PRC do that is socialist? I’m honestly asking because I haven’t seen them do anything socialist.
Click the link, I already answered. Large firms and key industries are in the public sector, public ownership is the principle aspect of China’s economy. It is employing a Marxist strategy of building towards full socialization and abolition of the value form.
Specifically though, which part is relevant here?
Marxist economics. The reason it’s applicable is because China’s strategy isn’t at all in the same suit as Japan, the ROK, Taiwan, etc. China’s Socialist economy is built on public ownership of large firms and key industries, not just “window guidance,” and China isn’t racking up debt to do it.
China has a capitalist economy, not a socialist one.
It sounds like you’ve been soaking up Chinese propaganda!
You’re like those Christian Americans who truly believe that Trump is promoting “Christian values” despite being as far as you can get from Christian values.
All it takes for socialism is to just wave the flag and talk the talk, but not walk the walk, eh?
I explained in the other comment, public owership is the principle aspect of the PRCs economy. It isn’t so much “Chinese propaganda” as it is simple observation of their economic makeup.
It is economy
An evil authoritarian regime that is committing human rights abuses and does not follow democratic norms … but we’ll do billions of dollars worth of trade with them and base a lot of our industries around trading with them. But they’re still evil.
Yeah that tracks, same with Saudi Arabia and Israel.
Being aware of America’s abuses of power is good. Being contrarian and acting like everything they’ve ever said about China is a lie is bad.
most of what they say about it is a lie though.
How do you know?
The case of Smart Shirts Limited vs Sheffield Hallam University was heard in the High Court, King’s Bench Division, Media and Communications List. The judgment was delivered by Deputy High Court Judge Susie Alegre on December 17, 2024. The dispute centered around a libel claim brought by Smart Shirts Limited, a Hong Kong-based garment supplier, against Sheffield Hallam University (SHU) over a report and emails alleging connections to forced labor in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region (XUAR)…
The court determined that both the email and the report were defamatory at common law, as they could adversely affect the attitude of others towards Smart Shirts. The judgment emphasized that the publications were presented as factual findings based on extensive research, thereby influencing their perceived credibility.
Notably, the truth is a defense in defamation cases. If I publish an article saying my extensive research shows you cheated on your taxes, you won’t win a libel case against me if my research actually shows you did cheat on your taxes. That the university couldn’t win by simply showing that their accusations were truthful is damning.
The resilient tale of an early morning Tiananmen massacre stems from several false eyewitness accounts in the confused hours and days after the crackdown. Human rights experts George Black and Robin Munro, both outspoken critics of the Chinese government, trace many of the rumor’s roots in their 1993 book, Black Hands of Beijing: Lives of Defiance in China’s Democracy Movement. Probably the most widely disseminated account appeared first in the Hong Kong press: a Qinghua University student described machine guns mowing down students in front of the Monument to the People’s Heroes in the middle of the square. The New York Times gave this version prominent display on June 12, just a week after the event, but no evidence was ever found to confirm the account or verify the existence of the alleged witness. Times reporter Nicholas Kristof challenged the report the next day, in an article that ran on the bottom of an inside page; the myth lived on. Student leader Wu’er Kaixi said he had seen 200 students cut down by gunfire, but it was later proven that he left the square several hours before the events he described allegedly occurred.
This should also be viewed in context of the U.S. directly funding anti-China media. If you aren’t real interested in factual reporting to begin with and you add a heap of intentionally negative propaganda on top, the only reasonable conclusion is that most of your accusations range from grossly exaggerated to bullshit.
Are you talking about China or the US?
yes
Love how the exact same thing is now being said about the US lmao (the collapse part at least), I LOVE the media machine
hahahaha this one is hilarious
FEED THE MACHINE
Open up for trade! Wait no you’re not supposed to benefit, only us!
These two aren’t necessarily mutually exclusive.
Agreed. I’m not saying that “collapse is imminent is accurate”, but don’t act like these are mutually exclusive when the idiom “a candle that burns twice as bright burns half as long” is accurate (to itself - literally the candle).
Yeah. Anyway what’s with the weird fixation this website has for china? The whole frontage is constantly spammed with memes praising the CCP.
Lemmy is developed by Marxist-Leninists, so there are a bunch of us Marxist-Leninists and other forms of anticapitalists here. MLs generally uphold the CPC and PRC as legitimate Socialism and a positive, progressive force.
Makes sense, thanks for the context. I wouldn’t exactly argue that the current Chinese administration has a lot in common with MLs ideas but let’s not open that can of worms. :)
We don’t have to open it if you don’t want to, but if you change your mind, I have a bunch of resources I can offer and explanations for what you think may not connect.
Well I don’t have the time right now to get into a lengthy discussion (which this would require to do it justice), but if you don’t mind you can post the resources and I’ll check them out in a bit!
Without knowing your specific critiques, I’ll point you to this comment I’ve made regarding the CPC’s strategy, as well as this introductory Marxist-Leninist reading list I made, and this Socialism with Chinese Characteristics Study Guide by Qiao Collective.
China has like all the research all the production. Its the country where progress happens irl. Where I live, regress happens irl and progress only happens in my videogames
Lmao
Pundits have been predicting the economic collapse of the PRC for decades, there’s an entire sub-industry dedicated to “China Watching” that makes good revenue from predicting xyz economic collapse, and it exists because the West wants the PRC to open up its markets for foreigners to plunder freely, rather than the current situation where trade in China is heavily controlled and managed.
How can I cash in on predicting China will totally implode next year trust me bro
USAID gone, money printer in short supply… 😔
This administration has been disastrous for the hard working propagandist
So sad 😔
I promise that China will collapse tomorrow.
It is written.
What is mutually exclusive, though, is reality and China’s “imminent collapse” which has been looming just around the corner for the past 20 years
Idk people are saying the same things about the western markets as they have been for decades. Maybe a significant portion of people are just naturally drawn to crash prophets.
i’m not aware of people saying that about western markets until recently.
Then you are not engaging in economically interested circles.
i sort of am. but then again, the recent trump shenanigans put people on watch for the west.
but admittedly western economies have been stagnating for a while before that now.
