On the 5 distros i used, i had different problems that would make normal people uninstall the OS
I could ignore them because the benefits outweigh the problems, other people probably couldnt because they want a stable computer, not cool features
Still no viable alternative to Adobe lightroom imo
Many games still a pain in the arse to boot, even on Bottles.
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HDR with an Nvidia GPU?
What about VRR on mutli-monitor setups?
It works now.
The “extra steps” didn’t make it work for me sadly. I actually tried referencing this thread for solutions a little while ago too, but no luck 😕
This dude is using it without problems. https://lemm.ee/post/55423985/18232530
That’s great for that dude, and I legitimately hope I can use it without problems on my own system one day too
Works on desktop for me but no games as of yet…
I didn’t think Linux had enough ads and wasn’t commercialized enough but then I tried Ubuntu.
Fuckin gottem 🤣🤣 bullseye!
Which distro has full HDR support?
Every single one that ships Wayland compositor that supports it. I’d say „finished” is still a bit of a stretch though, since HDR support in apps is still quite limited and the only way to play Windows games with HDR is via Gamescope.
A what compositor - try to explain to people, that just want to open a freaking word document, what you just said. Explain to them why libre office completely messes up the formating. “Via gamescope”, “Wayland”, “wine” whatever. Doesn’t sound ready to me.
Stick with Gnome or KDE if you’re looking for polished features that you don’t need to mess with on CLI. But I think the commenter was just saying the app needs to support HDR as well (both Windows and Linux).
People that just want to open word documents don’t need HDR. What’s your point?
Have you ever opened a word document that’s more than just a single unformated paragraph on libre office. I know it’s not a “Linux” issue, but people don’t care. Of over 80% of the world uses Windows and Microsoft Office and the Word document somebody sent me looks completely messed up an the inlined table is all over the place or the line break happens on a different row than on the original document it’s not ready. And don’t say “pdf”. People don’t care. Karen could open it on her PC with a double click on her machine and on your machine it’s completely broken, why should I sent you a pdf. I just sent the same document to Karen and it worked perfectly.
My point is that Linux Desktop is far from “ready” for regular people.
That is a disconnect the Linux community has. A complete lack of understanding of how little everyday, well known, base terminology is understood by newbies asking questions. They want to help, but are very bad at it until the asked has a certain level of understanding, and people don’t want to make it over that hump without help. It has always been a roadblock into onboarding more Linux users, and a wall many bounce off of.
Yes, because back when I was learning almost 20 years ago I was able to google terms and read stuff for myself and it was also requirement for posting on forums, yet I was still getting a lot of help from the community. Times has changed it seems, so did the culture. Should I always assume ignorance and lack of interest? And now before I saw your comment I responded more comprehensively anyway, because why not, I’m not mad or anything. Should I take more time to write the response the first time around? Uh maybe idk
And do you really think that someone who just want to open a word document need to know about HDR ? Sure, if you want to dig into details, will become way more complex, but this kind of use is the exception more than the rules among PC user
anyone that wants to use their computer for basic things like netflix or watching any content at all will notice the difference. They won’t be able to tell you it’s HDR, but they will think “why does this look worse than it did on windows”?
“Linux totally does this thing!”
“Cool, I want to use Linux to do that, what do I need to make it work?”
*Gestures vaguely at nothing in particular, refuses to elaborate, leaves.*
Last time I checked only KDE and Gnome support HDR. (For gnome it is still experimental)
Also Hyprland… Yes, that’s the key - the desktop, not the distribution, though the „stable” distros don’t yet ship stuff new enough for this.
as far as I know you still have to set environment variables and use gamescope with a flag to enable it for games, but general desktop stuff anything with kde and I think also gnome will have a checkbox in the display settings.
Microkernel when?
all wife needs is Mahjong and shopping. not like I need to run Mine Sweeper. just a browser with Internet. Most could not install any operating system so charge for the install labor. lan-splaining is a waste of time. bring a book if Mom needs her windows fixed. thinking about putting her on linux when her machine finally pukes.
+1 for kdenlive!! Kickass software
I agree with Linus Torvalds. Linux is too fragmented. This makes consistent software deployment and support expensive and far too varied. Maintaining documentation alone requires an unlimited number of distros. From a user’s perspective, I really think Linux needs a universal install method like .exe. No user should ever need to use the CLI install software, no matter their distribution. Radarr, for example, is a very popular home media server application. It is one-click install on Windows. It is fucked on Linux.
Install Mint. After the updates I tried to install Tailscale. Then proceed to uninstall Linux because I have install using terminal.
The second I am forced to use terminal, I’m uninstalling.
I like how “GPU working” as a checkbox metric ties it all together.
“Linux is ready” - which distro? Fractional (sometimes even non-fractional) scaling is a mess. Most things that go beyond changing the wallpaper image need some command line stuff. Linux Desktop is for nerds and definitely not ready.
Yes it works fine if you know what you are doing but most people don’t. There is often not one thing of doing stuff, but hundreds. It already starts with the selection of a distro how would a “non-computer-person” decide on a distro. Just try them out? Install twenty different distros because reasons?
Unless resources are pooled into a single distro to polish it and make a defacto standard for ordinary people, homes and offices, Linux is not ready. If I need the freaking terminal because I want to see the day of the week next to the date it’s not ready.
You’re describing linux as it was when I switched. That was 30 years ago though. I don’t think you’re very familiar with current systems.
Ok here is a question someone recently asked me: “How to show the day of the week next to the date on my Desktop”. Try to answer that for “Linux” and help that person on the phone.
You really ask to get the Stallman quote here.
That’s not a linux question. That’s related to whatever desktop environment is running and what clock or calendar widget it can display.
they’re very correct. Last month I tried out Zorin (which was recommended by one of the linux communities here) and sound didn’t even work properly. I plan on writing up a full doc for the linux community on the problems a staff software engineer had with a basic no-frills install (I’m trying to find a distro for my wife), but Linux is absolutely not ready for the general populace.
Sound is almost always the sticking point for me in Linux installs.
But as I said in another comment, this doesn’t actually matter for the general populace because they don’t install OSes. The only situation where they’d use Linux is if they can buy a Linux PC ready to go, so config issues like this miss the forest for the trees.
sure, but then you’re alienating an entire userbase that can install an OS (which is just a flash drive and hitting a few keys during startup), but absolutely does not have the willpower to sit and figure out configuration on their new OS that absolutely does not work out of the box. Shit, I have enough to deal with in my daily life, I don’t want to be debugging driver issues. I haven’t had driver issues in windows or mac for over a decade, yet it’s the very first thing you encounter on a new distro install.
Any system that doesn’t ship with the machine won’t be friendly to the end user.
And on pc, linux always has to work with (or against) hardware designed specifically for that other os. Including ignoring established standards, because why not. It’s honestly a miracle that it works as well as it does.then why is every linux advocate stating that all that matters is picking your distro? If the system needs to have the OS preinstalled then the distro doesn’t matter at all. Yet that still really isn’t the problem. Installing an OS from a flash drive (distros are just as easy to install as windows is and people have been installing windows fine from hard media for decades) is a different realm of troubleshooting than driver issues. Either linux is ready for people to start installing any distro on their gaming rig to migrate off of Windows or it’s not. And it clearly isn’t.
Because linux users are people familiar with computers. The general public can barely use windows, they can’t realistically install an operating system. If you think people can install windows, I’m afraid that’s quite unlikely.
You’re clearly surrounded by tech savvy users. Don’t confuse them with regular users. They have nothing in common.
Non-computers people have been using Ubuntu for a decade. It’s far from perfect, but I’d refrain from basing judgement on a niche platform
You could just said you havent used linux, muchacho.
Linux is a kernel and not an operating system. My phone is runs Android, two of my root servers run debian bookworm, my living room media center runs Ubuntu, so I guess I have used Linux at least a little bit. But no distro I’ve seen (tried even more on some VMs) is really enough for me to suggest it to anybody that isn’t a “computer-person”.
I’m neck-deep in Linux and am responsible for getting developers at work up and running with it in servers, WSL and in 3 cases desktops.
I would suggest you’re just blind to the new user experience at this point. You’re focusing on a lot of stuff that works out of the box on most hardware these days. (but were kagey a year ago)
Bookworm on a late model laptop installs with 0 work. Onboard Nvidia is fine, sound is fine, steam is fine. Printer is fine.
No terminals required, Gui’s and Settings are fine.
Scaling (even fracitonal) is fine on KDE for the past few months.
You know who has had scaling issues for a decade? Windows.
Drag that notepad from your 4k screen over to your 1080 screen in windows an watch it blow up 6x, if you accidentally let go before it resizes it on the 1080, the top bar is off the screen. We’ve been dealing with that forever.
Servers are fine. VM’s are fine.
What non expert level things are you expecting a newb to open a terminal and do?
IMHO, The majority of the issues at this point are apps only supporting X when trying to run under wayland.
A question I got last week over the phone: “How do I show the day of the week next to the date in the desktop on Linux?” - what would you tell them?
I tell them it’s not windows and some things are going to be different. I’d offer up some widgets, maybe *the linux equivalent of rainmeter.
They can also trade out for one of the windows copycat distros If it was that important to them that it look and work just like windows.
Likewise if somebody in Windows 11 wanted to see the time but didn’t want to see the date in their tray like win95, there’s no GUI option for that.
Now if somebody really wanted to die on that hill, of course it can be changed in Linux, which is a clear advantage over Windows, But you’re going to have to get your hands dirty to do custom work.
As far as I can remember Windows 11 only shows the time on default installations and there are GUI options to change the shown format on the taskbar.
“Some things are going to be different” basically means that they would have to learn to deal with manual config changes and command line stuff.
I personally don’t expect the “end-user readyness” of Linux Distros to ever be a serious competition to OSes developed by huge teams driven by trillion dollar companies like Apple and Microsoft. Basically all Linux Distributions I’d consider “end-user ready” and polished are themselves developed by huge companies - like Android, ChromeOS, SteamOS.
I think the biggest issue Linux has on the desktop is the sheer amount of choice for practically everything. The ecosystem is so fractured.
So the choice is actually not between Windows, Mac and Linux, but between Windows, Mac and about thirty Linix distributions where not even experienced Linux Desktop users can agree on which they should suggest to the general public.
Which distro should I suggest to my neighbor? And are you sure other “Linux experts” would agree with your answer?
As far as I can remember
Negative. Date and Time or nothing, I’m on it at the moment. I use OSX, Windows, Debian, Android, and NixOS daily for different things.
basically means that they would have to learn
No, they don’t need it, it’s not even a changeable option on windows, mouse over it, get the date move on with life. If you can’t survive without customizing every element on your computer, no OS will suit you
end-user readyness
While I disagree, that’s an opinion, and it’s your opinion, and you’re welcome to it.
sheer amount of choice for practically everything. The ecosystem is so fractured.
This line of thinking has a fault. You’re punishing choice and options because they’re alien. Every time someone is unhappy with the way people are doing things, they make their own because they can. The very fractures you’re upset about are the same fractures that bring you https://linuxfx.org/ a distro with the time/date in the tray by default.
where not even experienced Linux Desktop users can agree on which they should suggest to the general public.
What kind of jeans should you buy? What kind of socks should you wear? Hell you can’t even get a consensus on Windows VS Mac or IOS vs Android from pros.
Which distro should I suggest to my neighbor? Currently, Debian is pretty solid. It lacks LTS, but for the home user, that’s not the end of the world. It’s good about updates and there aren’t any big kerfuffles about their package manager. I would reccomend, coming from windows to give KDE a shot on it. It’s fairly close to the windows look and feel, they just need to go into settings and tell it that single click on the file explorer needs to select and not open. If they’re coming from Mac, Gnome is going to feel a little more homey.
If they must have a windows clone, check out linuxfx, there’s less community support there, but it will be very close to what they’re used to.
If neither of those suit them Fedora is the next standout.
When people talk about Ubuntu, Mint, POP, or any of the other 30 flavors, they’re just great-grandchildren of Debian or Fedora. They try to make games easier or add their own flare to default installs. The vast majority of the fractures came about because old-school Debian didn’t do non-free, so you had to fight for video drivers and MP3. Ubuntu was first and did great until Cannocial started getting money-hungry. Then they started with snaps. Just as Ubuntu came from the discontent with Debian, Mint and Pop came from the discontent with Ubuntu. Now that Debian gave on non-free and most of the non-free’s now support free, Debian is fine and few people will say it’s not ok. Of course the pop users will say use pop, like the mac users say use mac.
Truth is, it mostly doesn’t matter what you use. With the exception of Arch, NixOS and Ubuntu, they’re all close to being the same OS with minor customizations. They’re mostly pulling from the same couple of repos even if they do it through upstream.
Do some testing. Put a non-technical Windows or Mac user on Linux for a week. Don’t explain anything to them, so they can figure it out on their own. Let me know how it goes.
The average Steam Deck user does not even know it’s running Linux. How it’s going: millions sold and counting.
Right. Because they’re interacting with an overlay the entire time, so they don’t have to deal with a shitty UI or manually performing any tasks.
So that’s an irrelevant example.
So that’s an irrelevant example.
SteamOS is Linux.
And? Most of the web servers people interact with run on Linux, too. But in both examples, they are not interacting with the Linux UI whatsoever, which is the thing we are discussing.
But in both examples, they are not interacting with the Linux UI whatsoever, which is the thing we are discussing.
The UI of SteamOS is a Linux UI. What else would it be?
If you’re trolling, at least do some of the classics like confusion about too many UIs but denying that the UI of SteamOS isn’t a Linux UI is just dumb.
My grandma is using it without problems. What now?
Why? My mom is 70 and has used Mint for a decade. She isn’t computer savvy but has little issues with her laptop. It works mostly the same as Windows, and is fine for her usage (Web browsing and emails).
What the hell is Grandma doing that can’t be handled by a mail client and a browser and a handfull od built in card games?
Can she to the package manager and install games? Sure
That’s it. Grandma’s not trying to install office or photoshop. She not trying to run Roblox or hit 90fps on Cyberpunk.
How about a few million school kids on chrome books. My 6YO is AOK.
Can you open a web browser? Done, Ship it.
My Parents and my Ex were fine on it 20 years ago. (given back then I HAD to do the setup)
The only problem they ever had was when my mother bought bargain bin CD full of shareware and I said no, that’s not going to work. She shrugged and I pointed her to some online solitare games.
Then they’re better off with a Chromebook or tablet. The only reason to be on a pc instead is to access all of the additional functions that would be a nightmare for them to figure out on Linux.
The only reason to be on a PC
The vast majority of people don’t need to be on a PC.
I’d argue that steam on Linux PC for casual gaming is pretty ready mainstream. Video drivers just work in anything that support non-free, Gui steam Install, the only thing you need to know is to check proton on each Windows Game you want to run. If they’d turn that on by default they’d be fine for light PC gaming.
I was pretty shocked the last few times I did a setup for someone and it needed nothing.
Hell, even NixOS works out of the box, that’s just nuts.
I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted.
Lie: “Most things that go beyond changing the wallpaper image need some command line stuff.”
Incomprehensible: “There is often not one thing of doing stuff, but hundreds.”
“It already starts with the selection of a distro how would a “non-computer-person” decide on a distro. Just try them out? Install twenty different distros because reasons?”
Yeah, go install a distro, don’t like it , try another or go back to windows. We don’t really care but making crap up to be a gatekeeper? That’s a bit much
“Unless resources are pooled into a single distro to polish it and make a defacto standard for ordinary people, homes and offices”
Ohh so even if every option works fine, it’s not ready unless it’s windows…
Going back to look at his history, he’s just a ball of incoherant complaints.
I’m with ya buddy: Today, Linux is good enough for most purposes. If you try it and don’t like it, go buy a new PC for windows 11.
lol wut? Proton vpn sucks on Linux.
Proton is a tool for use with the Steam client which allows games which are exclusive to Windows to run on the Linux operating system. It uses Wine to facilitate this.
Proton the gaming tool
