everyone in the comments is talking about linux, not a single comment about how this meme format is used exactly wrong
+1 for kdenlive!! Kickass software
Discord screensharing is working on Wayland now? :O
A debugger with an easy to use GUI?
No more excuses bird!
I didn’t think Linux had enough ads and wasn’t commercialized enough but then I tried Ubuntu.
Fuckin gottem 🤣🤣 bullseye!
Thanks to the likes of Proton, gaming on Linux is a hell of a lot better than it was ~5 years ago. You can actually do it now for the most part without to much fuss in my experience as long as you stick to Steam.
But once you leave Steam or get something brand new made by an EA and have to leave on third party implementations of Proton or raw Wine to get things working it gets a lot worse.
Also, for folks out of the loop, let me explain what this entails. I installed Steam. I clicked install on a game. I clicked play in Steam. That was it. Proton isn’t some sort of thing you need to install or launch separately. It really does “just work”.
I’m able to play Deep Rock Galactic, Helldivers 2, and even Marvel Rivals online just fine. All of these are online multiplayer games, the types that generally seem to have the most trouble on Linux.
that is most definitely not the process. You have to explicitly go into Steam’s settings > Compatibility > “Enable Steam Play for all other titles” (what in the world, it’s called Steam Play, not Proton?) and then additionally select which Proton version you want. If you don’t know this, or don’t google it with the right keywords, you won’t understand why literally 90% of your library isn’t available (in my case it was 99% of my library, I think I only had 3 games available on linux natively). Also if you select the wrong Proton version some games won’t run, so you have to know that and switch it for those games only.
They’re likely using a gaming distro that has those settings enabled by default.
It isn’t perfectly seamless but enabling Steam Play or changing proton versions isn’t any more of an advanced task than verifying game files (something that Windows users are asked to do the moment that they have a problem).
It has come a long way from the days of manually creating wine environments and writing custom launch files.
If you can install Skyrim or Minecraft mods (not using Steam Workshop) then you’re sophisticated enough to game on gaming distros like Pop and Bazzite.
If you can use cheat engine without a guide and write your own mods then you’re ready for Arch.
I’m using CachyOS, I think it was set up out of the box.
Agreed, but I think it’s important to note that that isn’t because of a shortcoming of Linux, it’s because those companies are incentivized to support platforms that are more suitable for enabling massive profits, that’s what it seems like to me anyways.
“it’s important to note that [insert speculation]”
Jm yeah that’s why I qualified it how i did 🙄
It’s not important to note something that is speculative.
“It’s important to note that YarHarSuperstar probably doesn’t even run Linux.”
See?
That’s your opinion and you have the right to express it. I disagree obviously, that’s why if you’ll pay very close attention to the words I used, it says “I think” before I said that.
You start by presenting it as a fact “keep in mind that it’s not because of X, but because of Y” then specify that’s it’s what you think but don’t provide any proof of, therefore there’s nothing important to note about what you said because you can’t back it with a source.
lutris works just as flawlessly nowadays using proton with minimal config.
Getting something brand new from EA is painful in any platform
Can confirm, bought my son a FIFA game on pc that caused so much trouble and confusion on windows with their activation bullshit that I ended up buying him an xbox
But once you leave Steam […] it gets a lot worse
Heroic Games Launcher is pretty great for games from GOG and Epic. You can run games with Proton just fine.
Lutris is also a great option, actively contributing to it. Got a slightly different focus than Heroic, but a lot more features as well. Basically a one-stop shop once you got familiar with it. Really needs more people that can contribute though given the huge amount of platforms and launchers it attempts to cover (literally all of them).
wayland clipboard
Lol
Also kdenlive was still a pain for me to work with, but that was mostly because of its layout, shorcuts, and wording of some features.
Otherwise yeah, we’ve made it pretty far.
https://gitlab.winehq.org/wine/wine/-/merge_requests/7236
The code is already there. Merged soon
lol wut? Proton vpn sucks on Linux.
Proton is a tool for use with the Steam client which allows games which are exclusive to Windows to run on the Linux operating system. It uses Wine to facilitate this.
Proton the gaming tool
It certainly sounds like wayland is just about ripe. Any DE recommendations for a lifelong XFCE enjoyer like myself?
I’m jumping on the kde train. The experience has been solid since plasma 6 and the Wayland jump last year, especially if you are already stuck in the Nvidia family.
KDE. It’s working very well with Wayland. I’ve been using both on my daily driver for a year now and it’s come a long way since then. It was still a bit rough in the beginning but now I can’t see myself going back. It’s pretty polished.
I’ve been using KDE Plasma with Wayland for a couple of months and it’s been really good. The apps that don’t support it properly open as an X11 window inside Wayland, which is perfectly fine. I’m not switching back to X11 either haha
I’m not a Linux noob, but I’ve been out of the scene for a few years.
Recently tried debian with KDE and Wayland on a modern PC with a 3060. Just a default install.
My mouse could barely track across the screen, it was very choppy and stuttered like crazy.
This was in the last 6 months. I got it fixed by switching to a different compositor, but I shouldn’t have had to do that. Even then I found YouTube to be super laggy.
It’s just not ready.
I had the exact same experience with Debian. The thing is, Debian is so many versions behind, it’s really no surprise that you thought it wasn’t ready yet. Try a less “stable” distro, you’ll be surprised.
well it’s again more about nvidia driver for wayland u need manually do some tweaks such as https://github.com/CachyOS/CachyOS-Settings/blob/master/usr/lib/modprobe.d/nvidia.conf
I’m glad there are ways to get it working, and thank you for sharing it, but this doesn’t qualify as “it just works, why are you idiots not switching from Windows when Linux just works”.
This is directly why a lot of people don’t take the arguments that Linux is ready for the average user seriously.
Yea like I said I’m not a total noob. I have built my own Linux From Scratch distro which is something I think most of the users on here would struggle with. All I’m saying is that it’s not a totally smooth and hiccup free experience for normal people. I’m a grown man now and sometimes I just want shit to work cause I only have like an hour to game in the evening.
I will try Linux again for my daily driver once Win10 support is gone but I will likely try something other than Debian as others have suggested. Something more gaming centric.
i am a Linux noob. i installed debian KDE wayland with an Nvidia card just like you.
i experienced similar issues. i couldn’t set my refresh rate above 60Hz, my screen was really dim and stuttering, and video playback was lagging. worst of all my Minecraft framerate was abysmal! (<20fps default settings)
i read the dang wiki and got everything running smoothly in an afternoon
it’s ready as fuck
i read the dang wiki and got everything running smoothly in an afternoon
that means it’s not ready…
openSUSE or Fedora. Both distros are top notch with either KDE or Gnome.
Cinamon should be supporting it soon
Xfce next major release will have Wayland support so no need to even change!
Wfce?
Best news I’ve heard all year
Discord wayland sharing where? I’m using vencord but games still stop moving.
Discord canary currently has it afaik. Haven’t tested it myself
Also had issues with discord a few days ago. Trying to share anything (monitor, program) crashed discord
It works like a charm for me with Discord Canary. Discord Stable doesn’t seem to have it yet though?
Do they also stream audio now?
Yes, but it’s not application specific like you can get on Windows. So only system audio. I’m not sure if it excludes discord, as my sound setup separates chat and game audio
Only up to the 570?
I think it’s referring to the driver version 570, which isn’t stable yet but working fine in beta.
Ah, that would make sense. Thank you.
I think only up FROM the 570 is more likely.
That would be a very odd way of writing it.
Perhaps, but what I do know is modern NVidia GPUs do work on Linux. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
My friend has a laptop with – Some low-tier mobile RTX-2000 series card, idfk – And games on it on Linux.
Hence “seems more likely that cards older than the 500 series are still borked since no one cares”
I know, I’ve got Nvidia GPUs in multiple Linux boxes.
My point is still that it makes no sense.
“Linux is ready” - which distro? Fractional (sometimes even non-fractional) scaling is a mess. Most things that go beyond changing the wallpaper image need some command line stuff. Linux Desktop is for nerds and definitely not ready.
Yes it works fine if you know what you are doing but most people don’t. There is often not one thing of doing stuff, but hundreds. It already starts with the selection of a distro how would a “non-computer-person” decide on a distro. Just try them out? Install twenty different distros because reasons?
Unless resources are pooled into a single distro to polish it and make a defacto standard for ordinary people, homes and offices, Linux is not ready. If I need the freaking terminal because I want to see the day of the week next to the date it’s not ready.
You could just said you havent used linux, muchacho.
I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted.
Lie: “Most things that go beyond changing the wallpaper image need some command line stuff.”
Incomprehensible: “There is often not one thing of doing stuff, but hundreds.”
“It already starts with the selection of a distro how would a “non-computer-person” decide on a distro. Just try them out? Install twenty different distros because reasons?”
Yeah, go install a distro, don’t like it , try another or go back to windows. We don’t really care but making crap up to be a gatekeeper? That’s a bit much
“Unless resources are pooled into a single distro to polish it and make a defacto standard for ordinary people, homes and offices”
Ohh so even if every option works fine, it’s not ready unless it’s windows…
Going back to look at his history, he’s just a ball of incoherant complaints.
I’m with ya buddy: Today, Linux is good enough for most purposes. If you try it and don’t like it, go buy a new PC for windows 11.
Do some testing. Put a non-technical Windows or Mac user on Linux for a week. Don’t explain anything to them, so they can figure it out on their own. Let me know how it goes.
How about a few million school kids on chrome books. My 6YO is AOK.
Can you open a web browser? Done, Ship it.
My Parents and my Ex were fine on it 20 years ago. (given back then I HAD to do the setup)
The only problem they ever had was when my mother bought bargain bin CD full of shareware and I said no, that’s not going to work. She shrugged and I pointed her to some online solitare games.
Then they’re better off with a Chromebook or tablet. The only reason to be on a pc instead is to access all of the additional functions that would be a nightmare for them to figure out on Linux.
The only reason to be on a PC
The vast majority of people don’t need to be on a PC.
I’d argue that steam on Linux PC for casual gaming is pretty ready mainstream. Video drivers just work in anything that support non-free, Gui steam Install, the only thing you need to know is to check proton on each Windows Game you want to run. If they’d turn that on by default they’d be fine for light PC gaming.
I was pretty shocked the last few times I did a setup for someone and it needed nothing.
Hell, even NixOS works out of the box, that’s just nuts.
The average Steam Deck user does not even know it’s running Linux. How it’s going: millions sold and counting.
Right. Because they’re interacting with an overlay the entire time, so they don’t have to deal with a shitty UI or manually performing any tasks.
So that’s an irrelevant example.
So that’s an irrelevant example.
SteamOS is Linux.
And? Most of the web servers people interact with run on Linux, too. But in both examples, they are not interacting with the Linux UI whatsoever, which is the thing we are discussing.
But in both examples, they are not interacting with the Linux UI whatsoever, which is the thing we are discussing.
The UI of SteamOS is a Linux UI. What else would it be?
If you’re trolling, at least do some of the classics like confusion about too many UIs but denying that the UI of SteamOS isn’t a Linux UI is just dumb.
My grandma is using it without problems. What now?
Why? My mom is 70 and has used Mint for a decade. She isn’t computer savvy but has little issues with her laptop. It works mostly the same as Windows, and is fine for her usage (Web browsing and emails).
What the hell is Grandma doing that can’t be handled by a mail client and a browser and a handfull od built in card games?
Can she to the package manager and install games? Sure
That’s it. Grandma’s not trying to install office or photoshop. She not trying to run Roblox or hit 90fps on Cyberpunk.
Linux is a kernel and not an operating system. My phone is runs Android, two of my root servers run debian bookworm, my living room media center runs Ubuntu, so I guess I have used Linux at least a little bit. But no distro I’ve seen (tried even more on some VMs) is really enough for me to suggest it to anybody that isn’t a “computer-person”.
I’m neck-deep in Linux and am responsible for getting developers at work up and running with it in servers, WSL and in 3 cases desktops.
I would suggest you’re just blind to the new user experience at this point. You’re focusing on a lot of stuff that works out of the box on most hardware these days. (but were kagey a year ago)
Bookworm on a late model laptop installs with 0 work. Onboard Nvidia is fine, sound is fine, steam is fine. Printer is fine.
No terminals required, Gui’s and Settings are fine.
Scaling (even fracitonal) is fine on KDE for the past few months.
You know who has had scaling issues for a decade? Windows.
Drag that notepad from your 4k screen over to your 1080 screen in windows an watch it blow up 6x, if you accidentally let go before it resizes it on the 1080, the top bar is off the screen. We’ve been dealing with that forever.
Servers are fine. VM’s are fine.
What non expert level things are you expecting a newb to open a terminal and do?
IMHO, The majority of the issues at this point are apps only supporting X when trying to run under wayland.
A question I got last week over the phone: “How do I show the day of the week next to the date in the desktop on Linux?” - what would you tell them?
I tell them it’s not windows and some things are going to be different. I’d offer up some widgets, maybe *the linux equivalent of rainmeter.
They can also trade out for one of the windows copycat distros If it was that important to them that it look and work just like windows.
Likewise if somebody in Windows 11 wanted to see the time but didn’t want to see the date in their tray like win95, there’s no GUI option for that.
Now if somebody really wanted to die on that hill, of course it can be changed in Linux, which is a clear advantage over Windows, But you’re going to have to get your hands dirty to do custom work.
As far as I can remember Windows 11 only shows the time on default installations and there are GUI options to change the shown format on the taskbar.
“Some things are going to be different” basically means that they would have to learn to deal with manual config changes and command line stuff.
I personally don’t expect the “end-user readyness” of Linux Distros to ever be a serious competition to OSes developed by huge teams driven by trillion dollar companies like Apple and Microsoft. Basically all Linux Distributions I’d consider “end-user ready” and polished are themselves developed by huge companies - like Android, ChromeOS, SteamOS.
I think the biggest issue Linux has on the desktop is the sheer amount of choice for practically everything. The ecosystem is so fractured.
So the choice is actually not between Windows, Mac and Linux, but between Windows, Mac and about thirty Linix distributions where not even experienced Linux Desktop users can agree on which they should suggest to the general public.
Which distro should I suggest to my neighbor? And are you sure other “Linux experts” would agree with your answer?
As far as I can remember
Negative. Date and Time or nothing, I’m on it at the moment. I use OSX, Windows, Debian, Android, and NixOS daily for different things.
basically means that they would have to learn
No, they don’t need it, it’s not even a changeable option on windows, mouse over it, get the date move on with life. If you can’t survive without customizing every element on your computer, no OS will suit you
end-user readyness
While I disagree, that’s an opinion, and it’s your opinion, and you’re welcome to it.
sheer amount of choice for practically everything. The ecosystem is so fractured.
This line of thinking has a fault. You’re punishing choice and options because they’re alien. Every time someone is unhappy with the way people are doing things, they make their own because they can. The very fractures you’re upset about are the same fractures that bring you https://linuxfx.org/ a distro with the time/date in the tray by default.
where not even experienced Linux Desktop users can agree on which they should suggest to the general public.
What kind of jeans should you buy? What kind of socks should you wear? Hell you can’t even get a consensus on Windows VS Mac or IOS vs Android from pros.
Which distro should I suggest to my neighbor? Currently, Debian is pretty solid. It lacks LTS, but for the home user, that’s not the end of the world. It’s good about updates and there aren’t any big kerfuffles about their package manager. I would reccomend, coming from windows to give KDE a shot on it. It’s fairly close to the windows look and feel, they just need to go into settings and tell it that single click on the file explorer needs to select and not open. If they’re coming from Mac, Gnome is going to feel a little more homey.
If they must have a windows clone, check out linuxfx, there’s less community support there, but it will be very close to what they’re used to.
If neither of those suit them Fedora is the next standout.
When people talk about Ubuntu, Mint, POP, or any of the other 30 flavors, they’re just great-grandchildren of Debian or Fedora. They try to make games easier or add their own flare to default installs. The vast majority of the fractures came about because old-school Debian didn’t do non-free, so you had to fight for video drivers and MP3. Ubuntu was first and did great until Cannocial started getting money-hungry. Then they started with snaps. Just as Ubuntu came from the discontent with Debian, Mint and Pop came from the discontent with Ubuntu. Now that Debian gave on non-free and most of the non-free’s now support free, Debian is fine and few people will say it’s not ok. Of course the pop users will say use pop, like the mac users say use mac.
Truth is, it mostly doesn’t matter what you use. With the exception of Arch, NixOS and Ubuntu, they’re all close to being the same OS with minor customizations. They’re mostly pulling from the same couple of repos even if they do it through upstream.
You’re describing linux as it was when I switched. That was 30 years ago though. I don’t think you’re very familiar with current systems.
Ok here is a question someone recently asked me: “How to show the day of the week next to the date on my Desktop”. Try to answer that for “Linux” and help that person on the phone.
You really ask to get the Stallman quote here.
That’s not a linux question. That’s related to whatever desktop environment is running and what clock or calendar widget it can display.
they’re very correct. Last month I tried out Zorin (which was recommended by one of the linux communities here) and sound didn’t even work properly. I plan on writing up a full doc for the linux community on the problems a staff software engineer had with a basic no-frills install (I’m trying to find a distro for my wife), but Linux is absolutely not ready for the general populace.
Sound is almost always the sticking point for me in Linux installs.
But as I said in another comment, this doesn’t actually matter for the general populace because they don’t install OSes. The only situation where they’d use Linux is if they can buy a Linux PC ready to go, so config issues like this miss the forest for the trees.
sure, but then you’re alienating an entire userbase that can install an OS (which is just a flash drive and hitting a few keys during startup), but absolutely does not have the willpower to sit and figure out configuration on their new OS that absolutely does not work out of the box. Shit, I have enough to deal with in my daily life, I don’t want to be debugging driver issues. I haven’t had driver issues in windows or mac for over a decade, yet it’s the very first thing you encounter on a new distro install.
Any system that doesn’t ship with the machine won’t be friendly to the end user.
And on pc, linux always has to work with (or against) hardware designed specifically for that other os. Including ignoring established standards, because why not. It’s honestly a miracle that it works as well as it does.then why is every linux advocate stating that all that matters is picking your distro? If the system needs to have the OS preinstalled then the distro doesn’t matter at all. Yet that still really isn’t the problem. Installing an OS from a flash drive (distros are just as easy to install as windows is and people have been installing windows fine from hard media for decades) is a different realm of troubleshooting than driver issues. Either linux is ready for people to start installing any distro on their gaming rig to migrate off of Windows or it’s not. And it clearly isn’t.
Because linux users are people familiar with computers. The general public can barely use windows, they can’t realistically install an operating system. If you think people can install windows, I’m afraid that’s quite unlikely.
You’re clearly surrounded by tech savvy users. Don’t confuse them with regular users. They have nothing in common.
Non-computers people have been using Ubuntu for a decade. It’s far from perfect, but I’d refrain from basing judgement on a niche platform
I wished undervolting nvidia gpus would work.
Fractional scaling is still a mess
I dont know wtf youre using. KDE has it perfect.
