Can anyone recommend a very beginner friendly Linux OS for someone who only knows what Linux is but doesn’t have experience with it and has never used anything but windows? Even Apple’s OS is confusing to me. But windows is trying to force this most recent terrible update every time we turn on the computer, and I’ve had enough.
I’ve been using Pop!_OS, and I’m quite pleased. I would definitely recommend it for Linux newcomers.
Pop! _OS, provided you know how to find specific wifi modules (drivers) for laptops like Macbook or Broadcam devices in general.
I’ve got some documentation somewhere on the topic let me see if I can find it.
In any case for now I suggest looking it up, it can be installed on literally anything. I installed it on multiple Macbooks using Ubuntu WiFi drivers (both free and non-free WiFi modules) to gain full functionality Wifi-wise.
For the most part “wl” will be available for your device (foss wifi module) so for most devices you’ll be fine right outta the box. And, in the event bluetooth is missing, by installing “blueman” for Bluetooth capabilities.
For most if not all Windows devices (amd64, amd86, intel, NVidia, etc) it can be installed in one fell swoop.
Best part, you can encrypt your data using the same password you use to login. It’s one of the first things you see before confirming the installation to your device.
And the installer is intuitive and really user-friendly.
In terms of DE’s it is as versatile as Ubuntu, it is after all, compatible with most - if not all, Ubuntu repositories.
You can use the default DE GNOME to make your device look like Windows Vista.
You can, alternatively use KDE Plasma to make it look like it’s Windows 7 using the sddm display manager.
It’s as versatile as any other distro but with an easy installer, you literally just press buttons. Obviously you’ve gotta wipe the data on the drive. So here’s to hoping you’ve either made backups or, have made peace with the death of that drive.
In any case, failing drives are as easy to fix as telling the drive to ignore the damaged sectors.
Pop!_OS is like Ubuntu if it had Debian’s stability IMO. It’s been fantastic thus far and I highly recommend it. They also have very extensive documentation!
Talking by experience, the one distro that let me just install it, then use my computer without to care about what distro it was using, was Fedora Specifically the XFCE spin
Mint is the way I went (13 months ago). Linux Mint Debian Edition in particular.
The best that I can think of that fits those requironments would be Linux mint. When downloading you can select between 3 different Editions, whose only difference is the desktop, all this boils down to is how it looks, so just select whatever looks best to you.
Now something to keep in mind when switching to linux; while you will be able to do all that youd want on a PC on linux, some software that you might use and be accustomed to (like the adobe suit) might not be supported on linux (like the adobe suit) so youd need to find alternatives. Linux was designed around terminals, ‘cmd’ on windows, so while you can do most in a GUI, you will more often than not find tutorials using said terminals. And unlike on windows with guis, terminals have both direct system access, as well was expect you to know what you are doing, so read what it prints, its important.
If you do ANY gaming at all: Bazzite KDE
If you don’t: Fedora KDE
Fedora gnome and i game fine.
Mint, some people will criticize me for sugesting it but I belive it’s the most user friendly distro that you can just search an error on google and get a solution instantly since it’s so widespread. I was going to say Ubuntu but they have made some questionable decisions regarding ads.
Linux Mint and maybe Fedora
Amazing, thank you so much. I’m going to check it out right now!
I’m going to second Linux Mint, I installed it on my grandma’s computers recently and she’s had no complaints in the last 6 months.
Other than trying to get her Epson printer to work (which I only found out about this morning because she uses it so little) so I’m going to try to get it to work for her tomorrow.
I did mention that I’d happily buy her a new printer but she’s insisting on keeping her current one. I’m praying I can get it working.
Why would anyone criticize Mint as a suggestion? It’s easy to use and stable. I have been using it on my main pc for abut a year with barely any issues (i had more problems on windows). I have tried other distros: mutable, immutable, rolling etc but I always come back to Mint if I want things to just work.
P.S. I have used ubuntu professionally for about 7 years and while I don’t always like it, it is still a solid choice.
I like Kubuntu tbh
I didn’t like Mint all that much.
If you have an old laptop you can try a few out and see what works, they’ll run faster than windows. If you’re on windows you might have access to Hyper-V Virtual Machine and then you can just run some Linux Distros in a virtual machine to see if they’re nice. You can even try moving some files into the VM and see if you can still work with them after a migration from windows.
I’d recommend Ubuntu. I’ve never tried Mint like others have suggested, but one of the strengths of Ubuntu is that it’s one of the more popular distros, which means if you want to install a program, it probably has an easy install version for Ubuntu/Debian, or specific instructions, or just a lot of people online who have had the same errors as you and can give you suggestions when something starts causing issues
@PagingDoctorLove @mugdad1 I’m thinking Ubuntu, Mint, or MX Linux. But any Linux will be at least a little different from Windows. It’s not hard to get used to, and it’s worth it.
Stick with something popular. People like to argue about distros, but beyond their package manager and some settings, it’s the same thing under the hood (not saying these difference are nothing, but still). For a beginner, or really for anyone just looking to use their system instead of tinkering with it endlessly, a popular, well supported distribution will do the job.
Ubuntu fits that bill, although they made some very weird decisions recently, so I’d suggest starting with Mint if you’re new to this. Most everything should work out of the box if you have common hardware, and there’s a decent community around in case something goes wrong.
I’d also advise jumping to anything too new, flashy, or promising stuff that should really, really not be distribution dependant. My position on things is that if there’s a common tool that’s available everywhere to do something, and some distributions decides to make “their own” which does the same thing but is very specific, that’s just wasting time. Hence the disdain for raw ubuntu, among other.
As already said, Mint is the only sane choice for the common user. The only thing I’d add is to select the MintDE edition which is built off Debian instead of Ubuntu.
You won’t notice any real difference between either variant but you should encounter fewer issues on the Debian version.
Can’t confirm, I’d strongly recommend the default version for fewer problems and support of PPAs. While it’s technically better not to use something related to Ubuntu for moral reasons, for beginners I’d strongly suggest not putting unnecessary obstacles into your own way.
While I agree philosophically and would prefer the Debian based version. I personally have had issues with it, myabe it’s my Nvidia graphics.
So for a beginner I would reccomend the version that is considered the “main” version at the moment. Currently it is still Ubuntu based afaik.
Ubuntu is one of the easiest distro to get into Linux in my experience.
I am currently running Linux Mint and it had a lot of issues one both my machines (laptop and PC). Never had these issues with Ubuntu. I am waiting to finish my client’s project before I am dropping Linux Mint.
Mint.
I’ll be very honest with you. It’s not fancy, it’s not snazzy computing. It’s simple, designed with a graphical interface in mind, and a good operating system for someone who A) does not know Linux, or B) does not want to fiddle.
Without a doubt, the most user-friendly distro is Linux Mint. Although, if you are a gamer, you might appreciate a distro like Bazzite more, since it comes with everything you will need for gaming pre-installed.
Endeavour OS. It may be a bit more hands on than something like Ubuntu/Fedora but there are ways less abstractions, better document and community support that makes it simpler over all.
Pick up a note-taking application like Joplin or something and write down solutions to problems and you’ll be fine.
I’d recommend against Ubuntu/Fedora/Mint etc. tbh, they are simpler on the surface but there are no ing parts that make it more complex when things break.
Play around with distrobox and docker too, that makes a lot of stuff easier.
Oh god, please do not do what Hawk just said (No offense Hawk). The “a bit more hands on” means you’ll have to learn to use half of the GNU Utils (command line commands) to feel comfortable. If even Mac feels confusing you’ll NOT feel comfy on Endeavour.
The most easy one is Mint. It might not be the one with the most modern tech under the hood, but it’s pretty much the greatest start as a “normal user just wanting things to work” you can get without immediate help by someone knowledgeable. The community is also extremely friendly and there’s a plethora of tutorials for things on Mint on the web (also many how-to’s for Ubuntu apply on it, and it’s compatible with any downloadable software for Ubuntu (.deb packages, those are basically install files - some companies still prefer to offer their stuff this way).
As context, Endeavour OS is based on Arch Linux. That community expects you to become comfortable with the command line. Endeavour is more of a buffer to it than a remedy, it’s definitely aimed at more advanced users and those who like a more steep learning curve.
If you’re perhaps also in for new hardware, may I also suggest taking a look at companies like Tuxedo Computers, System76 or Slimbook? If you buy from them you get their tested systems on tested hardware including customer support. Extremely valuable for newcomers.
You can find a list of hardware vendors here. (The blogpost is a little bit outdated, you might find it useful nonetheless. Ignore the distro recommendations in it though, I gotta redo the thing eventually)
This is based on my experience teaching at university, Your mileage may vary. This is what I found to work the best for first year students.
Sounds like a fair recommendation to students given the nature of Arch with almost zero bounding boxes to navigate around, I’d absolutely not recommend it to average users who do not look for a deeper learning experience though. In my experience most people want their tool to work in a comfortable way, in this case being the PC. The experience of downloading something from the AUR using “just one command” might be a positive one for many, but for people who aren’t into technology to at least some degree using the CLI in any way is, more often than not, at least uncomfortable.
OP mentioned Mac being confusing to them, so I wouldn’t assume them wanting the student experience with Linux but rather smooth-sailing.
the best time to switch to linux is a few years ago.
the second best time is now.
I switched a few years ago, and recently spun up a secondary Windows install because I was planning on checking out Game Pass. I couldn’t make it more than a couple hours, Windows 11 is a hot mess now and it felt really gross to see all the ads everywhere. Even the login screen isn’t free of them anymore!
I honestly don’t know how people use that shit, I wouldn’t force it on somebody I hated.
It is actually quite bad to use. If for whatever reason I needed a commercial OS I’d have to use MacOS at this stage.
Microsoft has really dropped the ball in terms of quality.
I’m on windows 10. And they were right that it was the last version of windows I’ll ever need. I only change OS when I update my hardware. So next hw refresh, I’m going to Linux.
welcome
I will be happy to make the switch.
we all here happy to help you can ask me personally and i will help if i could so which distro are you trying first
I’ve used Mint, Ubuntu, CentOS and Kali here and there. Never on my personal computer though. May go with one of those, but I see some other newcomers that I might try. I appreciate the offer to help.
mostly debian so there won’t be big diffrence
I tried Mac os and I thought it was cool until I got docker and it made me make an account. It also in order to change things in the desktop environment you had to pay for apps and I’m cheap. Windows is annoying to me after being on Linux for so long even if they have wsl. My computer broke and I ended up needing Linux to make an old MacBook we had work again is the only reason I switched originally. Developing software I appreciate that the ide and terminal are super convenient to use. Normal people for Linux… Nope. Getting my Bluetooth to work was a 3 hour journey. Normal people use their PC that much in a month where as I use mine 12 hours+ a day.
My whole family uses Linux Mint and they are normal people.
Yea and I bet you installed it for them. If you provide IT support for people than yea totally doable. I switched to android and people call my phone a cheap phone or laugh at it granted the people I hang out with me included are middle class at best and I have a flagship phone and they are rocking iPhone 11s and stuff. Point being marketing is key and open source doesn’t have a Nike like following
Tbf my mom doesn’t know how to install Linux, true, but she also doesn’t know how to install Windows. If you give her a bare metal laptop with no OS I would have to install either for her. If linux came preinstalled (say she buys a Framework and chooses Fedora), and she wanted to switch to windows after not liking it, I’d have to install it for her too.
She also doesn’t know that she can “search” inside her emails to find something, we’re not exactly talking about people who know how to do anything on a computer, so what, do you think I don’t have to “provide IT support” no matter what OS she runs? At least with linux I’ll be able to help instead of trying to figure out windows fuckery after not using it myself for years now.
As to the iPhone users, yeah they make fun of me too because they’re stupid, get good and turn it back on them like I do, “of course I don’t use iSpyOS, I use GrapheneOS like a smart person, get good scrub.” Those capitulating to the peer pressure are no different than them buying into the marketing, that’s part of their marketing.
The Church of Linux can’t save everyone’s digital souls, but that doesn’t mean we have to stop telling people the good word from the books of Torvalds and Stallman.
Sounds like you need to hang out with better people. I doubt my friends could even tell you what phone I use, and Androids can easily cost more than an iPhone. People who call it cheap are uneducated on the subject and leaning toward shallow at best.
I installed Mint for my grandmother. I only visit twice a year and I’ve never had to help her fix it. On the other hand, I have have had to recover family Windows computers that had a bad update.
Or just get good, iPhone users make fun of me all the time for using a non-iPhone, but I just flip it back on them,
“What? Of course I don’t have an iPhone, I don’t like spyware. I use GrapheneOS. Sure ‘your UI is so good that babies and the elderly can use it’ well get good scrub.”
I did, because when you buy a PC, Linux is not installed by default. If it was, I wouldn’t have had to install it for them.
Ever since moving everyone to Linux, I haven’t had to do any IT support. Honestly.
My Linux installs break all the time because I can’t leave well enough alone. It’s always been my own fault.
I use podman like a normal human.
I switched a few years ago. I’ve been using windows for over 30 years. They changed a bunch of random shit I had used in the past. I figured I’d give it a shot.
I never went back. I’m not a coder. I don’t even like tech very much. I’ve been really happy with Ubuntu for years.
I wanted something that just worked. It has.
The Steam Deck was the reason I changed. Used the Deck as my only PC for a couple of months and liked the experience so I changed.
I’ve had OpenSUSE on my PC for over a year now and really like it… But I’ll be honest, the move and troubleshooting problems for setup was a pain in the ass. But it’s stable and steady since I’ve gotten over setup pains.
I hear you. I spent a while switching to OpenSUSE too because it seemed so easy, I’ve installed OSs plenty!
But I like to partition and stuff, and have a lot of drives from over the years. Oh, what filesystem? Well geeze that might as well be an epic RPG’s “choose a name” screen!
Now it’s easy: Their perfectly fine default of BTRFS because snapshots and I might try dedup, thank you very much. Lol but I still feel like I had to wade through way too much to reach that conclusion.
Once it’s installed and configured though? Man, everything I throw at it is just fine. Love my Tumbleweed. Haven’t looked back in like 4 years. :)
Tumbleweed brotherhood ✊
It doesn’t get used or recommended enough.
I installed Pop!_OS on a Thinkpad and made it my main work computer. It is the most boring computing experience ever. Nothing ever breaks. It just works.
I’m surprised how well my thinkpad was supported in the Fedora plasma spin. Everything just worked out of the box. No drivers were needed. Even the fingerprint reader works.
I thought it would just be for login, but even terminal will use it when I need to sudo.
How awesome!
It’s been my daily driver for years now. The two computers os have literally never failed, no software issues other than some bugs I myself introduced.
They say they’re the distribution for humans. Apparently, it is so!
I was planning on switching this year anyways but windows filling out a driveiI configured specifically to not get any data and then complaining about it led to an early switch.
Well to be fair I was using Debian on a second computer for years, but now my main one also runs Fedora
So true. Windows XP was the one that made me bail. I can’t for the life of me understand what is taking everyone else so long… Its been all down hill since win 2000.
I still alternate because not everything works as it should on Linux.
I usually host a local mumble server, I haven’t been able to make it work, same for ZeroTier and xlink kai.
DRG crashes constantly, seems I need a new GPU… I don’t have that kind of money and I won’t have it for a while.
I’m still looking for a music player that has an UI like MusicBee, specifically its file explorer because I have my own organisation and most players just shove every album together (Elisa comes closer but it isn’t the same).
Along Music Bee I have a plugin that searches for missing lyrics (lrc). On the same line, I don’t know if there’s something like mp3tag so I keep going back.MusicBee not working on Linux is maybe the biggest thing holding me back. I want my play counts preserved, damnit. Also Age of Empires 2 DE doesn’t seem to even have a Proton option.
Generally Steam let’s you use Proton on anything with a Windows version, regardless of whether or not it will work. You can also switch versions if needed.
I assume you’re missing a steam setting somewhere.
Did you enable Proton for all titles in your Steam settings?
That’s so dumb I can’t believe I missed it, thank you. It’s not the most stable game even on Windows, but I’ll have to give it a try.
This year totally is the year of Linux, guys!
Trust me!
The only way Linux ever becomes viable for the mainstream is when there is a single distribution that covers every feature and is as streamlined and user friendly as possible.
- No command lines ever for anything
- huge software compatibility
- hardware compatibility of the newest and oldest of hardware
- easy troubleshooting even your nan can follow
- and most of all: every Linux user agrees it is the best Linux distribution (unless you are into niche stuff)
So until even you guys can agree on one distribution being the best, it will not be the year of the Linux ever.–
It seems like what you want is a tablet.
I used Linux on and off over the years and will probably switch back to using it when Windows 10 is no longer supported. Linux will never be mainstream but the user base would grow if every Steam game ran on Linux seamlessly. That’s probably never going to happen, though. There will also never be “the one” distro to rule them all. Mint and Ubuntu come pretty close.
It’s honestly getting there. The major barrier at this point is kernel level anti-cheat, which is a bad idea people shouldn’t be using anyway.
Does this apply to Windows as well? Haha
For Linux to go mainstream is simple. Have Linux be default on every computer sold in stores.
Something like 99% of people who go to a store and buy a laptop, does so because they need a device to access their online bank or watch funny videos on YouTube. Maybe check their mail and open a PDF or two.
I think it doesn’t occur to most people to even consider what OS to use on a computer. They just use the computer.
I was going to make a crack about you inventing MacOSX, which is at least “Linux adjacent”, but I don’t know how to work without a command line on either Windows or Mac. Some functionality is just so much more inconvenient or even impossible through the GUI, even on those
I always find the command line argument to be a bit of an odd thing too. If you Google any weird Windows error, I can almost guarantee you will find a Microsoft forums result with someone saying to run
sfc /scannow(or a DISM command).What I think it really comes down to is that people are used to troubleshooting Windows stuff that they forget they’re having to do it. Then some will say that “Windows doesn’t need troubleshooting” which is pure crap unless maybe all you do is login and open Chrome - which Linux can do that perfectly fine too.
At the end of the day, I don’t really care all that much about what OS other people use (use the best tool for the job and all that). I’m not going to be using their PC, but I do get a bit aggravated when people seem to go out of their way to make it look like Linux is still the same ecosystem it was in the '00s.
“How do I do X on Mac”
“First install homebrew, and then install this plugin”
50 plugins later
“There, now I can finally use the GUI”
So Macs run Gnome now?
Disclaimer: when I say “bullshit”, I do not mean “you are brainless fool”, I only mean “this idea is so ridiculously wrong it is time we put it to rest at last”
No command lines ever for anything
This annoys me so much I literally registered to answer: bullshit. Stop with that strawman, will ya all, Linux enthusiasts
easy troubleshooting even your nan can follow
Same level bullshit. Watch win (and mac?) being hell to debug
every Linux user agrees it is the best Linux distribution
Bullshit. See Win XP times with many custom-made “flavours”. That did nothing to make windows less popular
when there is a single distribution
Bullshit number one. Linux will become major thing as a result of people pushing back against corporate wall-gardening and spying and/or when it starts coming pre-installed (see Android phones for the latter). All the scary-command-line whining is just elitist bullshit
Hell people still argue about the best version of Windows lol (I miss XP and 7) people will never agree on a single Linux distro
So, Ubuntu 10+ years ago? For normie usage you don’t need to worry about any of those things. It comes with firefox.
I worked in a PC repair shop until a few years ago. Most people didn’t want to buy MS office. Most of what they did is in a web browser. But most people that came in to buy a boot USB wanted a windows one rather than Linux, either way I just copied what ever ISO they wanted to it. Copy/paste doesn’t cost anything.
Don’t need it to be the year of the Linux desktop for me to switch to use it myself.
year +1
This is why I use linux!
Yeah, but then someone does the same with systemd, am I right?
/ducks and runs
AA5B @lemmy.world
Yeah, but then someone does the same with systemd, am I right?
/ducks and runs
Exactly what i was thinking XD. How many articles there were about systemd being pushed on linux users and how it was bloatware XD
some days ago switched to void linux. It’s awesome
still didn’t reach that level im stuck at arch level how do find void is it good and from which point
What made you choose Void?
I wanted to try something new and different than debian, ubuntu or fedora, but at the same time do not try something like arch. A few days ago at work I’ve mounted a VM with void linux and start reading its handbook , and wow, the OS is very intuitive, if you combine its practicity along fish you got a very handy system, but again, I tried because I wanted to try something different, I really didn’t try to satisfy a need. By the time, I should be able to tell if has the speed and performance to carry a selfhosted server; yesterday I started to migrate everything to void in my Lenovo Think Centre mini.
Nice. I hope it works out for you.
I’m a full-time Nobara daily driver since January 2024. It perfectly suits my gaming needs and also is working very well for my home audio production needs. Might have been better off with a slower moving distro for that stuff but so far so good!
To be real Linux is far from ready to be an all in all viable alternative to windows.
The fact that it has a hundred desktops. An absence of major software like ms office. Adobe and autodesk suites, and not being able to avoid the command line when shit hits the fan. Will make users choose to purchase new hardware rather than make the jump.
I bet Linux will make a 2% after win 10 end of support.
It has a hundred desktops
Are you referring to distros? Just pick one that’s widely used and that’s it.
An absence of major software like ms office. Adobe and autodesk suites
You can use it online. Or, even better, use something like LibreOffice. For adobe and autodesk you’re SOL but that’s very intentional and it sucks. The only solution is a VM.
and not being able to avoid the command line when shit hits the fan.
I don’t really get this. You can’t avoid using cmd on windows either when shit goes wrong. There’s nothing strange there.
Despite your valid counterpoints, those are all still hurdles that will drive away general adoption, especially when there are people surviving digitally entirely off of a smart phone and tablet. We see similar complaints from people about simply picking a lemmy instance. How can we expect them to navigate the more complex landscape of distros?
I don’t mind it, it’s not a big hurdle for me, but it is undeniably a hurdle for the average person. They aren’t tech literate.
I also can’t remember the last time I had to use cmd or PowerShell to troubleshoot or configure stuff on my home Windows box (my primary desktop still). When I first customized the install media, and when I configured it post install. I was tearing out core components like Cortana search, and preinstalling updates to the iso. Not anything critical to actual usability.
The key settings are almost all available through the UI. All of the ads that make headlines are controlled by a single switch in the settings menu, which hasn’t been reset by updates like people keep saying it does.
You really only have to get into the guts for stuff like disabling web search, killing preinstalled apps, and the like.
I automate shit through PowerShell for a living (effectively). Cmd and PoSh are good for automating stuff, working on batches of stuff at once, and for interacting with certain stuff in Azure that you usually would never touch.
Oh no, I can’t interact with deleted mailboxes that are aging off behind the scenes without using PowerShell! That’s totally the same as Linux’s reliance on the terminal.
It really depends on your use-case, your criticism is valid though. In general it would be way better for new users to not learn about it as something that gets slapped onto a Windows machine, but on fair grounds for comparison (meaning on a machine from hardware vendors like System76, Tuxedo, Slimbook etc).
For Software it really is a hen-and-egg problem. Big companies won’t support Linux until enough people are there, and enough people won’t come until known software is available. This however changes gradually; The Software Store is receiving payment features in the future (almost any distro uses Flatpaks in the background), so there will be more viable paths to monetize your software product for companies. Meanwhile the amount of users rises more and more for years now thanks to 1. Valves push with SteamOS + Hardware and 2. India and China who got comparably high Linux userbases (I think in India it’s 13% of all desktop PCs).
So yeah, not there yet. But not “far from ready”, really. It just needs some software improvements that are in the works, and for the device vendors to become more known.
What most Linux advocates hate to admit is that the abundance of distributions discourages software makers from supporting Linux. Because then they will have to deal with bugs specific to each distribution, desktop environment, window manager, x.org or Wayland, and thousands of other variables. Imagine having to spin up a different virtual environment for each use case. It’s a nightmare that isn’t worth it for them.
I don’t think that’s the main problem, as on the inside (meaning backends) most things are rather standardized (ignoring legacy stuff) and any distro not adhering to those modern standards can be - purely from an economic aspect, NOT a nerd or enthusiast aspect - safely ignored. I do concur that choice paralysis indeed is a problem though.
The modern stack is pretty straight-forward: Flatpak and Snap for distribution, GTK4 (opt. with or without libadwaita) or Qt6 for the UI, Gnome and KDE to take care for proper integration, and stuff like Wayland, Pipewire and the XDG specs to focus on in technical aspects. All the documents necessary to work on fully functioning apps to publish via both Flatpak and Snap are there (not saying everything is perfect, just that it’s properly working). Distro-specific bugs will also be either prevented by the new sandboxing or are to be fixed by the distro in 99% of all cases, not the app author. What’s really missing right now is a way to sell it through those hubs.
Eventually there’ll be sufficient pressure on all sides so common technical necessities will be defined that distros will have to adhere to if they want to receive app support (which is very much possible given the sandboxing around Flatpaks and Snaps). Until then every company keeps freely defining what they support. Right now they usually go two or three big ones, namely Ubuntu, RHEL+Fedora and perhaps SteamOS. Some also go for OpenSuse, probably because they use SLES for their own machines.
Meanwhile commercially developed distros - meaning stuff like Pop!_OS (System76 devices), SlimbookOS (Slimbook devices), Tuxedo OS (Tuxedo Computers) - all use Flatpaks, and as they all integrate it as intended apps work on them as they do on any other distro that uses the modern stack. So customers don’t have to think too much about it.
tl;dr… Don’t give new users too many options (avoids choice paralysis) but 1 or 2 modern ones or whatever a hardware vendor offers, and don’t expect developers to target distros that do not want to fully support either Flatpaks or Snaps. Then we’re already on a good way.
@Natanox @mtchristo
>Flatpak and Snap for distribution, GTK4 (opt. with or without libadwaita) or Qt6 for the UI, Gnome and KDE to take care for proper integration, and stuff like Wayland, Pipewire
I do not have anything of this in my system and will not install any app that requires to support all of this.
Flatpak even cannot work without namespaces (which is not enabled in kernel defconfig). If you want to make flatpak default option to distribute apps, first make sure it does not require enabling some (possibly insecure) kernel configurations and work on default kernel
Wayland (in current implementation) is error. Flatpak/snap is error.
Before all of this, all we need to make app work is some x11 libraries, so app can bundle it’s needed portable toolkit and run without any additional requirements. Now we cannot just provide wayland-client, because app cannot draw with it. It needs opengl, which needs many libraries, which… cannot be provided in compatible way, so you need container bullshit that runs other distro inside… only to run some graphical app that draws few buttons…
Really, i’ll prefer using windows, not this bullshit.
Now flatpak causes people ignoring new glibc compatibility bugs, so it soon will be impossible to build portable binary for glibc systems… Even now Portable Executable (windows exe) is most portable way to distribute software for linux, because wine gives compatibilty that glibc cannot (or jusn do not want). And sometimes wine even have less memory overhead than flatpak/snapI do not have anything of this in my system and will not install any app that requires to support all of this.
What are you using, a potato? Any modern distro comes with those. Without GTK4 and Qt6 barely anything even runs, lol.
I mean, you can reject literally everything of this new technology stack, but that doesn’t change the fact it’s things are working now. If you stay with old tech don’t be surprised if things stop working though, the world will move even if you prefer to stand still. However if you want to be taken serious in your criticism please inform yourself on what you’re criticize. Neither Flatpak nor Snap run “another distro inside”. What you’re talking about is stuff like Docker or Distrobox. Those are neither the default on user systems nor should they be, only very few distros aimed at enthusiasts and professionals ship them by default.
There are also multiple ways to ship portable apps, the best known of them would be AppImage. That one simply isn’t recommendable due to a lack of maintenance and security issues (they simply don’t fix the libfuse2 issue).
It’s not like everything was great in ye’ olden days anyway. There literally are FOUR different backends for desktop notifications, Pulseaudio is a friggin’ trainwreck and don’t even get me started on Xorg configuration. Every desktop environment very much did their own thing and once you installed an app using f.e. GTK2 on a KDE3 system the whole thing looked like it recently insulted Mike Tyson since there was no proper config available / it lacked the icon theme / the font broke everything / it didn’t like your hairstyle. Likewise running older software more often than not was a real pain as they expected an environment with obsolete libraries etc.
Like it or not, Flatpak and Snap already are the standard. So is Wayland (and it works like a charm by now), and Pipewire is a god damn godsend after meddling with Pulseaudio all those years. And from a developer’s perspective it’s so nice to have a controllable environment to work with, i.e. Flatpak and Snap. Of those two only Snap generates huge overheads btw, it’s a known problem with Canonicals approach (one of many). Still, technology like that is what Linux needs for the future.
But hey, ultimately Linux gives you the choice. If you want to stay in your niche I hope it suits you well.
However if you want to be taken serious in your criticism please inform yourself on what you’re criticize
they simply don’t fix the libfuse2 issue
Neither Flatpak nor Snap run “another distro inside”
The flatpak runtimes are huge and are another distro in practice, just check the contents of the gnome runtime and you will see it is another distro.
Flatpak also depends on namespaces which paranoid distros disable and cause issues. Which the person you responded to talked about it and you ignored all together lol
Wait, what distros use flatpak by default?
I don’t even know where to begin… Fedora, Pop!_OS, KDE Neon, elementary OS, Tuxedo OS, Slimbook OS, any Ubuntu flavour that doesn’t default to Snap, Zorin, Nobara, Mint… and any distro that comes with KDE that doesn’t activate Flathub by default (e.g. OpenSuse) got the “Add Flathub” button built-in right in Discovery.
If you want your app to be accessible to as many distros as possible while retaining control over its distribution, Flatpak (and unfortunately Snap) really is the primary way to do so. Once KDE e.V. and the Gnome Foundation finish their efforts to support payments and ownership handling it’s also the golden way for any developer who wishes to make a living with their craft.
Oh lol, that is a lot. I’ve only used ubuntu, Debian, Fedora (i3 spin, which I believe had only dnf as a package manager), endeavouros, arch and researched nixos (which I’m definitely trying next) so I’ve never actually had flatpak preinstalled to my knowledge.
You can’t even use Windows without running some sort of cleanup script that stops half the crap on it.
There are a few GUI programs that let you do that without ever having to interact with the cmd or run a script. + a lot of GUIs are self explanatory and come with a lot of guardrails to not let you mess with your system.
Don’t they just run a script?
Y’all, for real, I was on Windows for gaming. Gaming on Linux really does seem to “just work” now. I’m using CachyOS. It just works. The only tweak I had to do was to tell Helldivers 2 to use the vanilla version of Proton instead of Cachy’s version. So literally if I was on a more traditional distribution I’d have to do less.
I was trying or Linux for gaming… But I found using mods too difficult or annoying and switched back to Windows. That’s only for my gaming machine though…I use a Linux laptop for everything else
I play all kinds of old games, Japanese games that require patching, and use mods. That technical stuff is why I haven’t tried Linux yet, because things are already irksome with a well-known OS. I don’t want to imagine what edge cases on Linux could be.
Unfortunately, I might be forced to make the switch if Microsoft decides to ally with the Trump Regime. 😱
I found games i couldn’t get working on windows now work fine on linux. Ss1 runs on linux without tinkering while its hell on win 10 onwards. Xy doesn’t work on w11, runs fine on linux, rtc.
SteamTinkerLaunch let’s you easily launch VMM and MO2 for basically any game, for anything else it should usually be as simple as finding the Linux path for your game and moving files by hand
What games?
Yep. Used to be cautious about it working, having to check protondb before buying/installing/playing and what have you…
but I havent done that in a year.
I just install a game, even a new game, and it just works. No thought, no concern,no issues… OS related, that is, it obviously doesnt make buggy games not buggy, so buggy games are still buggy, but thats the games fault, and you’d run into that regardless of the OS… Like Cities Skylines 2 bad performance, or modded minecraft crashing due to mod things.
Want to be specific so someone doesnt follow my post with a predictable “WELL I PLAYED insert known buggy game AND IT STILL CRASHED AND I DIDNT GET A BLOWJOB FROM BETTY WHITES GHOST OR ANYTHING, YOU LIAR!”
My aunt bought some Wal-Mart $200 Lenovo like 8 years ago. It ran Windows 10 like I run a mile…eventually. I put what upgrades into it I could (added some RAM and an SSD) and threw Linux Mint on it, perfectly usable.
Last week: “Hey, can my Linux computer run The Sims? They just released a bundle with Sims 1 and 2.” I got to looking at it, “no info” on steam deck compatibility, system requirements require a newer GPU than her laptop, like they call out Intel HD 620 and she’s got Intel HD 520.
Proton will almost certainly run it, but that machine’s iGPU won’t. I got to blame the hardware and not Linux!
saving her some headaches, I think.
I’ve heard the rereleases are very buggy and crashy.
EA? Being lazy and publishing a subpar product? In this timeline? You don’t say.
Now just see if you can pirate the OGs and run those, close enough unless Aunt Susan is a graphics junkie.
I think I could lay my hands on legitimate original discs from back in the day, but I’m not going to take on the project of getting them to run on a modern Linux machine as I’m already having a tooth pulled this week.
I was absolutely amazed that the new Overwatch game (Marvel Rivals) ran out of the box with GloriousEggroll v23. Kind of a wild sentence.
Same! I thought I wouldn’t be able to play any competitive PVP games!
Mostly you can’t, glad that one runs!
The issue though usually (just for clarity’s sake) isn’t that the games don’t run, usually they’d still run fine, but the DRM is often kernel level and nobody on linux wants that, or the DRM just doesn’t work on linux (fault of DRM company), or everything works but they’ll still ban your acct for playing on linux because fuck you (looking at you Destiny).
The things that don’t run now aren’t usually linux’s fault, it’s the company/DRM every time.
I’m at about 19 years since switching - MS reaffirms my decision for me each and every year.
Removing Windows from your computer is like ridding your body of a terrible disease
Or when an insurance company CEO somehow transitions to an “unalive” state…
