Since https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1gdhy7u/experimental_flathub_release_of_newpipe_on_linux/ got a bit of traction yesterday, this is WhatsApp straight from Meta running on Linux desktop using android-translation-layer.
android-translation-layer (ATL) is a Wine-like approach to run Android applications on Linux. Rather than running an Android container like for example Waydroid does this instead implements the Android API. Note that right now it’s very much work in progress and almost no app will work yet, but the fact that they have apps like Newpipe and WhatsApp running already is very promising!
Join the Matrix chat at #android-translation-layer:matrix.org and follow along!
I hope this makes it easier to do TLS sniffing and security research on Android apps. A lot of developers seem to rely on no one simply looking at how much information is exposed in the APIs apps use. Currently because it’s much more difficult to sniff Android apps, a lot of privacy/security issues are not raised.
As long as it’s installed on a device you control it’s pretty easy to sniff TLS traffic from an Android application, even if they’re pinning certs. I do this all the time for work. Frida makes it extremely easy, even giving you the ability to edit boringssl if something important is happening in native code. I’ve had to do this a couple times.
If you don’t have root you’ll have to recompile the application though which could matter if you need the signature to not change, but that isn’t a common requirement.
It’d be nice to have a better way to test though; I’ve wanted to check out Waydroid. Some coworkers just use an emulator which works great if it doesn’t need specific hardware.
Can’t it be reverse engineered? It’s java bytecode.
It’s difficult
Fascinating stuff. I’m glad we’re entering this new era of Linux application compatibility! And all through the honorable work of developers who are doing stuff just for the fun of it.
I can feel it in the air. This is going to take off just like how wine and proton took off. We are going to go through another “Linux gaming” rush all over again and this shit is going to be fun. Let’s go!!!
I definitely hope so, so far it’s looking promising!
Wine was first released in 1993. I hope our children are there to see the take off.
Didn’t it take off in the late 90’s within Linux communities?
So I’d give this a few years, then.
Just ignore the existence of proton, despite it being mentioned by name.
I don’t think you should compare the two progresses. Technology is much better now. So, things will definitely move much faster than they did back in the 90s.
There is slightly more openness to androids layers than the win32 layers as well.
I still remember symlinking to binaries in my windows system folder back in the late 90s to be able to run office 95 under Linux. (The MSFT system files permitted some things to work properly that just didn’t with the wine provided libraries back then)
Yeah but I imagine porting a JVM and an API using open source code is much easier than reversing the Windows API.
So the native gnu userspace will become the third most used desktop linux runtime :P
Should have been called AITL (AITL Is a Translation Layer)
ATL can be “ATL is a Translation Layer”
AITLNGNU AITL is a translation layer and not GNU that is not Unix
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Would anyone post a quick guide on how to run WhatsApp l using atl?
There is some documentation on https://gitlab.com/android_translation_layer/android_translation_layer/-/blob/master/README.md and I am rather sure it’s the right project, but some sort of installer would be nice. I think installing all those dependencies by hand is not a good solution in the long run. Wasn’t there supposed to be a flatpack container to be downloaded somewhere?
I think installing all those dependencies by hand is not a good solution in the long run.
Well, no. “In the long run” this gets packaged by distributions so you don’t have to compile anything. Right now it’s available for Alpine Linux and there is an AUR package for Arch.
Wasn’t there supposed to be a flatpack container to be downloaded somewhere?
There is a Flatpak (no c in that name!) base app available, and Newpipe has been packaged with that as a Flatpak, see https://flathub.org/apps/net.newpipe.NewPipe Ideally we get more stuff packaged up once more works but I don’t think it’s feasible to repackage everything out there so for a lot of applications you’ll just have to have a locally installed ATL outside of Flatpak.
This Android Translation Layer looks amazing for Linux phones. Waydroid is already pretty awesome, but it’s just running full fat Android on top of your Linux system and has all the limitations that brings (poor to no notification integration with the host system, poor integration of filesystem, extra resource usage for all of the Android services, issues with power management and suspend, inability to change resolution on the fly, poor integration with host onscreen keyboard, etc). I’ve used Waydroid on postmarketOS and it’s nice to be able to have Android apps available, but it almost feels like still carrying around a second phone, just that second phone is virtual. Something like ATL sounds like it properly integrates Android apps into the host OS. I need to give this a try soon.
and i cant even get Whatsapp to run because my phones bootloader is unlocked… life is unfair
I use a phone with an unlocked bootloader too, but I only got a warning and pressed ok
Life fair. It’s only trying to help you not have to use whatsapp.
yeah you see, the issue is, i need Whatsapp for my family, friends and work. i’d rather not use WhatsApp but i aint got a choice (yet, afaik Whatsapp will be forced to work with other apps)
It sure is a popular app regionally. Lots of people in different countries I know use it interchangeably at this point: when they say text, they mean whatsap. I get it.
But I will not support Meta, there is a line. I don’t need family or friends that cannot use open source alternative. Worse case, I just drop back to sms.
But work requires it? Or you happen to have work that needs to support many customers? I suppose I could see that, but work would then be a completely separate phone only for that purpose.
you see i am an apprentice so i don’t have a work phone yet, but i need Whatsapp to communicate with my superiors and all
why not? i use an unlocked phone and run it just fine
WhatsApp just says i dont have the official version, even tho i got the apk litterally from their own damn website
Apparently some apps ask Google Play if it’s an official android OS.
Are you in Brazil?
no, i live in Germany
Interesting! The UI looks like it uses GTK for drawing widgets?
It does!
Looks fantastic but how much are apps sandboxed? I don’t want WhatsApp to see all my files for example.
Like Newpipe someone could make a Flatpak of it (if there’s demand)
next we need microsoft store apps to run on Linux ig?
Edit: because some apps completely block wine or is distributed only from the Microsoft storeThe people from Heroic are already working on this.
The talk gives a brief overview on what they’ve been working on like UWP/WinRT in Wine, Comet for GOG multiplayer features and more. But Lidwin also does a quick little sneak peek intro on a new project called Maxima Launcher, an open source replacement for EA Desktop / Origin that will eventually get Heroic integration too.
Cant wait,so happy someone’s working on this.
That’s amazing
Very cool. I’ll stick with a WhatsApp Matrix bridge so I don’t have to install a Meta app, though.
slidge-whatsapp gateway for XMPP
Nice!
Do I need to run my own instance for this, or is it possible to do this without control over my instance?
You still have to install WhatsApp though, since it requires activity on your account (on the app) every 14 days.
Yea, get around that with sand boxing, but will probably switch to the android API layer now that it works with WhatsApp
Wao, I was not aware of that new enshitification clause. I’ve been off of anything related to Meta for over 8 years. The more I hear about what these ech giants keep pushing, the happier I am that I got out so long ago
It’s been like this for many years, possibly since Facebook (as it was called back then) bought it.
I’m curious, doesn’t WhatsApp require a phone number to be attached to an account? As in, I thought activating it doesn’t work on devices without a SIM card?
I haven’t used it in a while, but I think it just sends you an SMS with a code that you can enter manually, so yeah it works on devices without a SIM
Exactly. I created my whatsapp account in waydroid like this.
…but it can’t run both in your phone and in your computer, right? For that you need the desktop app (which is Windows only) or the web app, which linux apps encapsulate right?
You don’t need to install it on your phone, though.
You’re right, you can’t run the Android (or iOS app) twice. If you want a second device running WhatsApp you’ll need the web app.
In new update you can. Just have to link it.
I’ve never tried having the app on multiple devices - I specifically didn’t want it on my phone - but it’s worth a try. I use whatsapp web in firefox, and only start waydroid when I need to log in again. The third party linux apps just load whatsapp web in electron or something.
Amazing stuff, having Whatsapp on desktop linux would be nice.
And the web app is not good enough?
if you use a web app might as well just use your browser
Yeah, sorry, was just referring to the browser. I use it and I find it okay.
Well, the only use of this, for most people, would probably be minecraft.
It’s on Windows, as well. You can use Proton for that.
Already Exist for 2 or 3 years now I guess.
We have minecrafts on linux. One useful-ish thing that I can think of (and currently use waidroid for) is myscript’s nebo, a handwritten note-taking app with quite good OCR. Since myscript don’t build their SDK for Linux, let alone apps, it’s somewhat the only way currently, I guess… Unless you can run wpf-s via wine somehow?
Well, we don’t have bedrock and don’t even think about mcpelauncher (it’s not even foss anymore + licensing bullshit).
Actually you can already run minecraft PE on linuc for quite some years, so nothing new.
More like fartnite
It’s on Windows, as well. You can use Proton for that.
